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I’ve been thinking of writing this post for a while, and my early morning scroll through recent Forum posts finally pushed me to it. When I author a post, I try to go back to it every so often and reply to comments. That was something Jonathan hoped for from the authors he published. In going through the thread of a post I made a few days ago, I noticed that one or two people had systematically downvoted every comment I made, even things like “Thanks! Great suggestion!”–completely innocuous comments that couldn’t possibly have offended anyone. The clear message of them has to be, then, “I don’t like you. I wish you’d go away.”
That’s happened to me before. I’ve also noticed it happening to a couple of other regulars and writers. I have several thoughts about this, followed by a suggestion.
My suggestion is that the owners/moderators of this site make a change. I’m not sure exactly what is possible on the Disqus platform. My preference would be to disable the upvote/downvote feature entirely. It really doesn’t add much to the conversation. I do know, because I’m a moderator for another site that uses Disqus, that it’s possible to attach board names to upvotes and downvotes–that’s what we do on that site–and that at least requires people to stand behind their “vote” rather than being anonymous. I honestly see no purpose for anonymous downvotes other than to be mean-spirited.
Thanks for considering this.
Looking at a couple of your past posts and comments, I agree that some folks are giving you the down arrow for just about anything you say. The same is true for mytimetotravel, which suggests (but certainly does not prove) a misogynist connection. However, I never paid much attention to the up or down arrows before, and they seem rather pointless. Ignoring them will take away their miniscule power.
Wow… how unobservant have I been? Never noticed the arrows. I comment on things I agree with and also on those I disagree with.
It wouldn’t occur to me to do it anonymously. Where’s the fun in that?
I, for one, enjoy Dr. Lefty’s stuff.
As someone else may have mentioned, as an Academic, I was used to being criticized by students when they were graded on lazy, underwhelming, zero-effort work. I ignored their comments and focused on my student evaluations, which were always in the top 10% of faculty at my institution….with them frequently being in the top 5%.
Wow, I log onto the site after a 3-4 day absence and find that Armageddon has broken out.
1) Dana, as another Dr. Lefty, I agree with you 100%
2) David Lancaster, thanks for referencing what I said about this topic in August
3) finally, anonymous arrows contribute nothing to the discourse, do nothing to help anyone learn about finance/investing, etc, and perpetuates trolling, bringing this site closer to the level of X/Twitter.
Suggestions:
a) if people are so in love with their arrows, then remove anonymity – any arrow should be associated the name of the “voter” and what direction they voted
b) remove the arrows for two weeks and see how much they’re missed.
I disagree with your #3 assertion. Up/down votes provide a general idea of whether the majority feels you are correct in what you’re saying. Perhaps you should reconsider your position if it’s bad enough to garner more than half a dozen down votes.
An up or down vote provides nothing without explanation or context.
What makes you think that the “voters” are right? It’s quite easy for someone, regardless of their breadth of knowledge of the issue at hand, to chime in and press an arrow…..that doesn’t make them right.
a) “Garbage in ——> Garbage out”.
b) no, the majority is NOT always right
b) The Dunning Kruger effect.
Not saying he is always right, but if RDQ goes off on a rant about health care costs or SS, do you think someone who gives him a down arrow without explanation is likely more knowledgeable than he is? Do you think more down than up arrows makes what he said wrong ? More likely than not, he is right and the arrow pushers just don’t like his conclusion !
I find the vote tallies interesting.
On the web site I run, we have comments, we have replies, but we don’t have like or don’t like. You don’t like something, you can write a reply explaining why you disagree. Insulting or inappropriate posts are promptly deleted – we have 6 admins around the world.
When I see the trolls at work, I cancel out one of their downvotes.
I do the same thing. I don’t up or down vote very often. Usually, if I think a person makes an outstanding point, even if I don’t necessarily agree, I’ll give them an up vote. Even less often I will pile on a down vote in one of those rare times when a person makes a comment that seems like a personal attack. If I see that there a few down votes on a comment that really shouldn’t have been voted on at all, I’ll add my up vote to try and get it back to zero.
I finally got to read through all of this. First of all, Dana, I can’t imagine you getting down arrows? You are one of the friendliest people here, IMO. I don’t use the arrows a lot, unless I agree with what someone says or think they made a good point I hadn’t thought of. I don’t read all of the posts on the forum or comment on them since some of them are either over my head in understanding, don’t apply to me, or I don’t have anything to add that hasn’t already been said. Chris
The HumbleDollar up/down arrows remind me of the Like/Don’t Like buttons on social media web pages. The latter, I presume, feed algorithms that determine ad pricing and content feeds.
Since HD does not allow advertising (thank goodness), or feed different content to different readers, I have to question the value of up/down arrows. Were some of the features of social media web pages simply copied to HD when the website was being developed?
The whole purpose of HD, as I understand it, is to promote commentary so readers can shares ideas, information, and experiences. Just clicking an up or down arrow doesn’t add much to the conversation.
I do have one question: How did you earn the sobriquet “DrLefty?” Are you left-handed?
HumbleDollar doesn’t allow advertising? What? The bottom of the window always has an and a separate pop up window with animated ads usually hovers over the bottom left and needs to be dodged when posting comments. Right now there’s an ad for a streaming service at the bottom and for a brokerage firm just below this comment.
Yes, left-handed.
Why would someone downvote that?
Perfect example…
Just keep the up vote and ignore the down vote if it’s kept. It’s all good. Life’s too short to worry about the petty down vote. Thank you for the article Dr. L. 😎
I upvoted your comments primarily because of your attention to the nature of this site and what Jonathan wanted. Thanks for bringing that up.
Just keep the upvote. A highly upvoted comment usually will have good information that expands on an article or a different viewpoint that is well presented.
Leave the voting along. Its not that big a deal, people need a thicker skin.
I comment a lot on the National Review magazine site which is unmoderated and can get quite heated sometimes with political viewpoints. I use the vote count as a quick count of what people think of my comment.
I’ll leave a vote on other peoples comments, usually because they’ve already left a comment close to what I was going to leave or I just don’t have time to leave a rebuttal comment.
If people consistently leave nasty disrespectful comments soon they are just ignored.
If I down vote “Thanks! Great suggestion!” it simply means I do not think the referenced suggestion is great and that I disagree with it, nothing more. I’m not disagreeing with you thanking that person and I am not bullying you in any way. I simply disagree that such person’s suggestion is “Great” in substance. Happy New Year!
DrLefty,
Please, please don’t stop contributing your thoughts and ideas because of a few jerks.
Unfortunately there are a lot of cowardly, lazy and immature people in the world. They are unhappy and can’t stand that others might take joy in the bounty and beauty of the world.
I like to read everyone’s thoughts and ideas.
My momma taught me that if I can’t say something nice to say nothing at all.
I honestly don’t remember if I agree with most of what you say. But that doesn’t matter. I can’t learn anything from people who think the way I do.
At my age of 71 I do find I sometimes hit the wrong button by mistake. I try to fix it as soon as I notice it.
HD needs your comments and thoughts.
Your characterization of those who might disagree by using a down vote as “jerks” is offensive. It sounds like something only a jerk would say. A downvote prevents no one from posting their opinion, and gives an idea of how well an idea is perceived. If you can’t remember, hit the wrong button and are generally curmudgeonly, you may want to get checked by your doctor.
Disqus conducted a survey in 2018 to identify the reasons for downvotes that generated 5,007 votes.
Results of the survey.
You disagree with the comment 46%
The comment does not contribute to the discussion 27.9%
Other 20%
You think the comment should appear lower in the discussion 4%
You don’t like the user 2.3%
https://blog.disqus.com/poll-why-do-you-downvote-comments
It’s a little hard to understand why something so trivial (in the overall scheme of what’s important in life) would generate this post. And yet, here I am commenting 😉 This seems to be the financial equivalent of stressing whether you are earning 3.5% or 3.6% on your money market fund.
Being mean isn’t trivial.
I don’t pay the slightest bit of attention to up and down votes. I read responses and rebuttals. I think that keeping them adds no value to my experience. I’m all for removal of the option.
Thanks for posting this. I think the down vote is unnecessary. If someone wants to post a dissenting opinion, they can. It adds zero value to have a down vote when there is no explanation for it.
The discussion seems to center around the author or commenter, but not about the voter. Voting is a way for the common man to have a voice. Voting allows the masses to speak and feel they contribute. I know that I find it frustrating when I read an article and I have no option to log a response. I just want my reaction to be recorded. Voting is a first level reaction – fast,easy; commenting is a next level reaction – more time,effort. Easy voting reduces friction in social media and provides an On Ramp for anyone and everyone.
FINAL COMMENT: I want to thank everyone who has commented and engaged with this post over the past day. I think I’ve said everything I have to say about this, and I don’t want to further belabor the point and tax people’s patience. If you comment later and I don’t reply, please know that I appreciate your participation in this discussion.
I always treated the up/down votes as either I agree or I disagree with the statements in the postings – nothing more. I’m unsure if seeing separate up/down tallies adds context to the totals. The summary as it is today means that more people agreed or disagreed depending on the tally count. If you were to split the up/down you would be able to discern that 50 ups and 3 downs means the readers here agree more than disagree with the contents as stated. If you want engage further, then hit reply and state your thoughts. Am I missing something?
Not sure the anonymity on votes is helpful.
The original post only allows a thumbs up to indicate the post is liked. There is no down option other than to post a comment, why wouldn’t that process continue with comments?
Cumulative up and down arrows on comments provide no usable feedback, especially when the cause of either arrow is unknown.
I’ll probably get a lot of downvotes for this, but who cares.
Totally agree. I think there are articles written on HD simply to generate up or down votes that aren’t relevant to the purpose of this website, and or comments meant to be controversial in order to generate such votes.
I see your point but I’ve never posted a “thumbs down.” It says next to the emoji, “Like the Forum post.” I click the thumbs up to let the writer know I read it and appreciate their effort. I don’t always agree with all writers or their submissions. Keep up the good work and thanks.
Keep the downvote. It is feedback. It is an indication that some readers don’t agree on the writer’s opinion or how the writer interprets the world. When a writer puts their thoughts into the world he or she is going to get pushback. Writers toughen up and see this as part of the process, and it is part of being successful. On other other hand I don’t agree with personal attacks on a writer or the classic comment “It’s all (insert your political party or elected official in here)’s fault.”
Thanks for your comment. But there are two different kinds of downvotes that happen here:
I’m not sure I’d really characterize either version as useful feedback, but especially not in the case of #2.
As an author of a post, I welcome substantive feedback. Indeed, in a forum, the entire point of posting things is to invite discussion.
As a writing professor, I gave students feedback on their writing all the time. If I just gave them a low grade (which I guess would be the equivalent of a downvote) with no explanation or suggestions about how it could have been better, I would have been doing a pretty lousy job.
So here’s a good case in point. I know this could change in a few hours, but right now there are two downvotes to my above comment. I get that “I disagree” is the “message,” but I don’t know why or with what. How is that helpful to me or anyone else?
Meanwhile, I’m left with this: If I make a substantive (and hopefully respectful) reply to a commenter, I get downvotes. If I make a friendly, harmless reply, I get downvotes.
If you were me, what would you make of that? Would you conclude that you’re just not welcome/liked here? If you’re supposed to somehow take this (anonymous, vague) feedback and “be better” or “learn from it”—how, exactly?
I understand this comment will get downvotes, too. I rest my case.
I like you. 🙂
Dana,
I addressed the issue of down votes for innocuous comments last august. I have copied some comments from that time period.
I made the comment below in repose to the following comment by Mark Bergman:
…why is there “voting” on peoples comments? If you have a comment, either positive or negative, post it. Otherwise, keep it to yourself if you don’t have the intestinal fortitude to post it publicly.
Despite your down votes, I agree 100%. This site seems to be headed in the wrong direction. This site is the closest I get to social media. I have always enjoyed the comments, and the fact that, whether I agree with them or not, they are directed at the topic, not an attack on the writer’s personality. I keep away from social media because it has become the cesspool of the internet. I truly hope that this site does not become one that I feel I can no longer feel comfortable interacting with due to the tenor of the commenting, and increasing number of down votes for innocuous comments on certain writers’ posts that seem like they are negative just because of who they are.
I was thinking of RDQ and Kathy when I wrote the last sentence.
Post: What If You Don’t Want to See the World?
From August 28, 2025
I wrote this after Jonathan posted a response to my comment above. I was devastated that I made him upset.
Jonathan, I’m sorry if my comments offended you in any way. That was not my intent. You are DEFINITELY NOT wasting your dying days. My main reason I posted what I did is I have recently seen a negative vote total on the most innocuous points that some people make. As I stated I have never participated, nor commented on any social media sites, as from what I have heard, is that people seem to feel that their anonymity gives them the license to attack people when they wouldn’t do so if they were face to face with that person. I was hoping that pointing out readers who seem to target the commenter, not the comment, would reflect on what they are doing. I have been reading this site for years, and have loved the give and take of ideas, it’s just that I’m starting to feel uncomfortable with some of what I have been seeing. Again, my apologies if I offended you.
Post: re RDQ’s “down arrows” —> My 1 cent :
Link to comment from August 29, 2025
Dick wrote this comment:
Just went to a CVS and they had the Allpoint ATM. I gave it a try. It said will you accept a $3.50 fee in addition to any fee your bank may charge. I touched “No” and it gave my card back. 😩
Which lead me to post this:
Dick, again I am appalled at the down votes for such an innocuous post. Come on people let’s have some common decency.
Post: What If You Don’t Want to See the World?
Link to comment from August 28, 202
Hey Dick, I just gave you an update vote to get you back to even. I rarely “vote” on comments, but couldn’t believe you were net negative on such a benign comment. Come on people!
Post: Have you seen your money lately?
Link to comment from August 16, 2025
Finally on rare occasions I have responded to some posts that I thought were really hurtful including one where my final comment was:
PLEASE be more thoughtful in your posts.
I think this is good advice for everyone on Humble Dollar!
From engaging in the discussion here, I think there are two competing values in play:
The same larger value underlies both concerns: commenters should treat each other with respect. I believe and hope there’s a middle ground where both values can be addressed.
Just want to quickly chime in and say that I acknowledge this post and hear your concern. We will never be able to make all users happy.
I don’t know what the right course of action is, as I can see both arguments. For now, we’re keeping it as is.
I’m monitoring the comments and want to hear all perspectives. If you don’t want to comment here publically, please feel free to email me at bogdan@humbledollar.com with your thoughts on this topic.
I am glad to see you are following this thread, although I am, obviously, disappointed with your conclusion. I might mention, since Jonathan’s opinions are being invoked, that he said that he would like more diversity here. I don’t think the current voting system encourages diversity.
Bogdan, since you’re tuned into the issue and interested, I’ll add my upvote for getting rid of downvotes.
I know it’s been addressed before and Jonathan preferred to keep them. With huge respect for Jonathan, and as others have pointed out – that was then, this is now. I’m sure Jonathan was well aware that HD would continue to change.
Thank you for the reply, Bogdan. I appreciate the acknowledgment, even if I disagree with your decision to “keep it as it is.”
Whether a comment is ‘innocuous’ is often subjective. Because text lacks tone, people might hear an unexpected tone while reading quickly and react based on their current state of mind rather than the writer’s intent. A simple ‘thanks’ can be interpreted in many ways—as a genuine thank you, a polite dismiss ‘noted,’ or even ‘I agree.’
Since fewer than 1% of visitors actually engage, I believe we should be as welcoming as possible. We shouldn’t place any restriction on how people ‘leave their mark’ or ask them to explain anything.
Let me quote Elaine again, from her “Letter from Elaine” posting on November 22, 2025
‘My husband Jonathan often spoke to me about the overall kindness, civility and intelligence of the HumbleDollar community. Please do not prove him wrong.’
Honest question, not trying to be sarcastic:
If someone new (or old) does engage on the board and gets anonymous downvotes, do you think that feels welcoming to them? Is it kind and civil to them?
Reaction to anonymous downvotes is subjective—hurtful for some, instructional for others, and ignorable by many. Since we can’t know with certainty what prompts someone to cast a downvote, we are left with how we choose to engage with one another. I believe the best path forward is to focus our own energy on responding kindly, civilly, and intelligently—or perhaps choosing no response at all.
Thank you for at least acknowledging that anonymous downvotes can be hurtful, especially when they are in response to comments to which no reasonable person would expect a negative response. I would agree that downvotes are either hurtful or ignorable. I can’t see any possible way they’d be instructional. A downvote either communicates “I don’t like what you said” or even “I don’t like you,” but it gives no information as to why.
And you’re right that all of us get to decide how to react, whether to downvotes or to comments with actual content.
I’m not a fan of social-media-style commenting, and I think all opinions should be welcome as long as they’re respectful. Without editors, that’s admittedly difficult.
Anonymous downvotes don’t communicate anything useful—they don’t explain what someone disagrees with or why.
In online communities, much like loss aversion in investing, negative feedback has a stronger emotional impact than positive feedback and can discourage participation, especially thoughtful or minority viewpoints.
If someone disagrees, a brief comment is far more constructive than a silent arrow.
Downvotes should be removed.
Can’t the same points be made about anonymous up votes? Just as some people may give down votes because they don’t like the author/commenter some people may give up votes simply because they like the author. Up votes also don’t explain what someone agrees with or disagrees with.
I hear you, but anonymous upvotes and downvotes aren’t equivalent.
In online communities, An anonymous upvote is usually interpreted as “this was helpful or appreciated.”
An anonymous downvote is ambiguous—it could mean disagreement, tone, irrelevance, or simple dislike of the person—and that makes it non-actionable as feedback, especially when attached to innocuous comments.
There is quite a bit of research on this topic and there is a reason why it is rare in online communities.
I looked at the link to research and while there are many summaries of research on social media and couldn’t find any that dealt with the issue of upvotes versus downvotes. If you are aware of one, please post a direct link to it.
Thanks for checking this out!
I accidentally linked to the wrong URL. Here’s (corrected my original post as well) what I read way back when and that’s why I posted. I apologize if it’s paywalled. If it is, a search produced this that is on arxiv on this topic.
I’ve noticed my comments regularly get an initial downvote before eventually moving into positive territory. Personally, I find it amusing and it doesn’t bother me in the slightest. That said, I’d prefer a critical comment over a silent downvote, at least then I’d understand what the issue is. Negative feedback, when it’s constructive, is just as valuable as positive feedback.
Same. I don’t mind engaging with someone who disagrees or is critical with something I’ve said. I participate in HD to learn from others–and I’ve learned a lot! Responding to disagreement/criticism sharpens my own critical thinking skills, and I might learn something new.
I think it is worth providing Jonathan’s reasoning about down votes in this discussion. I believe his comment indicates that he was more concerned about the negative impact of rants, especially those that were repeated over and over by the same person, on the HD community and its future than he was with down votes. The following comment, which Jonathan made less than a month before he died, received 64 up votes.
I believe HD participants should be able to express disapproval if someone repeatedly belabors the same point, especially if they label it as a rant, and they shouldn’t necessarily have to put themselves on the firing line to do so. So what should be the outlet for disapproval if someone chooses to rant and, indeed, admits that’s what they’re doing? Is ranting the goal here? A simple down vote seems pretty innocuous. Maybe the ranters need to show more self-control.
I personally share the concern Jonathan expressed about the impact on HD of threads and comments whose main point is to criticize the behavior of others. Jonathan’s plea that they stop has had no effect on their frequency that I can tell and now that Jonathan is no longer around to police them, they may acturally be attracting they type of people to HD that Jonathan hoped to keep away (i.e., those who enjoy criticizing others).
The problem is that non-“ranters” are getting bullied by downvotes. It doesn’t feel “innocuous” when you literally have no idea what you’ve done to elicit that expression of disapproval. It just leaves you in this bewildered space.
I agree with Kathy. The problems with “ranters” can and should be addressed by judicious moderation. On the other site where I’m a moderator (but not the owner), you start with reaching out privately to a person who’s not behaving well and asking them to please knock it off. If they don’t or won’t, you progress to saying something in the thread and sometimes even deleting offending comments or posts. The last resort would be a ban.
On the other forum I frequent, rants would be removed. Repeat offenders would have their posting privileges suspended. Egregious repeat offenders would eventually get booted. I have mentioned on other, similar, threads that there is a need for volunteer moderators on this site, but it has not born fruit.
Interesting discussion. Back when I commented more, I’d notice some of my innocuous comments would receive one or two downvotes early on…usually they were overcome by upvotes as time went on. I figured there were a couple lurkers that just didn’t care for me, or bored juveniles with nothing better to do…probably the same people who reflexively go after Quinn, Kathy, Dana and others. Nobody seemed to go after Dan, though…hmm, what does that mean? 😉
Maybe because Dan is the guy with the beer 🙂
Ken, I miss hearing from you. I actually have had a good number of down votes, they do not bother me. Sometimes my attempt at humor backfires, other times I take a position in support of someone who’s getting picked on for, what I feel, is no good reason.
Feel free to hit the red arrow🙀
Dan’s open secret: ElderBeerMen
maybe everyone knows this but Elder Beermen was a department store at/near Franklin Park Mall (now called something different) in Toledo.
Yes, many years ago, when my kids were very young, we were driving past the department store, I told them that the store was owned by a retired beer truck driver.
My oldest daughter said Really dad?
And I answered Yep, he’s an Elder Beer Man.
That silly joke survived and was modified into the actual ElderBeerMen🍻
While I see merit to both sides of the argument, I ultimately come down on the side of keeping the down-vote capability. I think the down votes allow valuable feedback that someone doesn’t agree with a given comment. Why should that feedback be discouraged, or “required” to leave a comment to express it? But to equate it to bullying is a bit much in my opinion. To me a down-arrow is nothing more than “I don’t agree”. For me it’s interesting to see how the community weighs in. A preponderance one way or the other is sending a message. I think that’s valuable. A few either way, is irrelevant and doesn’t mean much to me. Just my 2 cents. Gene
A down vote means “I don’t agree” with a comment like “Thanks! Happy New Year to you as well!” ?
That was literally one of my replies to a kind comment on one of my recent posts—and it got downvoted. What is there possibly to “disagree” with in that? I’m not meaning to be defensive here—I truly don’t get it.
It’s hard to find anything in life that can’t be abused. That hardly makes the case to discontinue it.
The “case” is that some people who are trying to participate in a constructive manner are being treated in a way that’s hurtful and disrespectful. No one is going to tolerate that forever.
Maybe you don’t care about the individuals being wronged by the “abuse,” and think we should just suck it up and ignore it. That’s your prerogative and your opinion.
On the other hand, perhaps you do care about the overall culture and long-term health of the community on this site. That’s my primary concern or “case” for bringing this matter up again.
I refrained earlier from commenting on the highly pejorative words you choose to use to frame your argument; “Cowardly”, “Immature”, “Lazy” and “Dishonorable”. I think those are inappropriate terms for using a function available in the application, presumably to be used, that Jonathan himself defended. Now you accuse me of being uncaring because I don’t agree with your argument. I don’t believe I deserved that. But congratulations, you’ve convinced me. HumbleDollar is no longer a place I feel safe sharing my opinion, no matter who respectfully I try to present it. I’m gone.
I would be sorry to see you go. Dana is simply articulating what the consistent, meaningless, down votes look like on the receiving end.
Well, I apologize that I offended you, both in my choice of words in the post and in my response to your comment. But this is exactly what I and others are getting at. You’ve articulated your concern and now I know what it is and can respond to it.
And since you were honest, I’ll be honest, too. I did think your previous comment was uncaring toward people who are being unfairly targeted by the abuse (your word) of anonymous downvotes: “hardly a reason for discontinuing it.”
That said, I appreciate that you engaged with me honestly, and I wish you well.
But “I don’t agree” with what? At the very least the arrows should be separate up and down, not cumulative.
Actually, I would support the idea of separate up and down counts. But to your question, I think the down arrow is a simple “I don’t agree”. Usually it’s pretty clear what the main point of a comment is presenting. If explanation is needed that option is still available.
As Dana has pointed out, some of us are getting down votes on completely innocuous comments. That is not disagreement, there’s nothing with which to disagree. It is bullying (and in some cases probably misogyny).
And this has drawn three down votes with no explanation. Maybe the misogynists don’t like being called that.
Kathy, I don’t know that I agree with your assertion that misogyny is at play. However, I have not lived your experience, so who am I to judge your statement?
None of those down arrows came from me.
I have learned from many who have written articles or posts on this site, and from many of the comments. The votes are not useful to me. Nobody has a monopoly on good ideas.
Thanks for this one Dana, I find it sad that we seem to have lost some of our best writers. Another of my concerns is that a new contributor receiving the kind of down votes you describe, will become discouraged and leave the site.
Having said that, some ugly comments, such as those attacking another writer, or spewing political hatred, deserve down votes, and lots of them.
Finally, we need to take it easy on Bogdan, unlike Jonathan, he already has one full time job. Lets face it, could anyone really fill Clement’s shoes?
In those cases it would be nice to have an ignore or block option.
Thanks, Dana. As a fellow sufferer I entirely agree. What good reason is there for this comment to get a down vote: “Thanks Winston. Is that a vote for 4%?”
The other forum site I frequent manages fine without this feature. It also has active volunteer moderators who shut down excessive bickering. If Bogdan is too busy to moderate, and I entirely understand if so, he needs to recruit some volunteers.
I saw the down vote you mention, and just laughed. What are you gonna do?
I agree 👍👍 Welcome to my world. A simple question gets a down vote.
LOL, I just neutralized a down vote, Dick
Yes, you were definitely one of the people I was thinking of in my post.
The arrow is meaningless. You can’t understand consensus if you don’t know the meaning of the up or down arrows. When they are applied to benign questions I think people are just playing games.
If someone disagrees with or dislikes what I say, I want to know why and exactly what they disagree with.
Consider the flap over cartgate. Some people were incensed, but over what? The topic, the criticisms or simply my intentionally exaggerated description of the people being irresponsible?
If the latter, I would like to know why anyone would care in any case. I drew the conclusion, perhaps incorrectly, they recognized themselves. 😎
I couple of years ago Jonathan sent me a note saying he received numerous e-mails complaining about my positions- often repeated, about income replacement, budgets and something else I can’t recall.
He said he would block me if I didn’t stop because HD users thought I should accept the consensus of most people on HD – they were right and I was wrong and they did not want to hear my contrary views anymore.
I asked, but never saw the content of the e-mails. Now I am left again to draw my own conclusions. Did I raise issues that caused people to question their actions, did I make someone nervous? I have no idea.
So comment by all means, but let’s be specific and logical and I suggest reading a post twice before commenting to be sure the meaning is understood. I found myself jumping the gun an occasion and missing the point I was ready to comment on.
You have a very valid and strong point. I have never ever seen anything you have written that would deserve down votes. You also, kindly respond to anyone who makes a comment to you. It is disappointing when someone writes an article and their is feedback, but the OP doesn’t respond back. That doesn’t make good dialect and brings down the effort of expressing a thought to share.
I suggested to Jonathan several years ago to either remove the down votes, or show who is making them. He preferred to keep it as is.
One of my brokerages did away with down voting on their forum, it also exposed who did it. They made a change to where you can only ‘like’ a comment and shows who did it.
Down votes are a distraction and mostly not deserved. After a while you can almost get the feel for who is making them, unless they are a silent lurker. I would encourage anyone to find a tactful way to respond. I’m not the sharpest bowling ball, but I refrain from insulting anyone and I make attempts to reverse down votes when I see them. Unfortunately, time doesn’t let me read all comments.
I hope your article makes an impact on HD.
One difference between the previous go-round on this issue and now is that Jonathan is not here to moderate. If people got too nasty, he’d come in and say something. Bogdan doesn’t appear to be involved other than for the Saturday newsletter—I get it; I’m sure he has a busy life, but the upshot is that this forum no longer has a moderator.
Thank you for the kind words and for reversing downvotes!
Mrs. Elaine M. Clements’s comment on 12/28/25
“I monitor this website regularly, as does Mr. Sheremeta.”
Good to know. But that’s not the same as occasionally jumping in when things get out of hand as Jonathan would. As I said, I’m a moderator on another site, and I mostly let people have their say, but if someone crosses a line of violates house rules (e.g., politics or name-calling), I’ll say something or even delete or block someone if the behavior persists.
I’m not suggesting someone should be blocked for downvotes. Just making the larger point that Jonathan was hands-on in keeping things civil. I understand Bogdan is busy, and I certainly don’t think Elaine needs to be worrying about this right now. But the lack of moderation does change the atmosphere around here, which is why I thought I’d raise the issue again.
Jonathan’s defense of anonymous downvotes was made clear multiple times in his replies to articles similar to this. You can find one here.
While ‘Great suggestion!’ seems innocuous, it can create a false sense of consensus. Some may strongly disagree based on nuances that are too complex to debate in a comment thread, making even a simple compliment feel like a barrier to a more critical discussion.
If someone strongly disagrees, nothing to stop them saying so, with an explanation that it’s too complicated to go into details. Although it’s hard to see what situation would justify such a position. Not wanting to post financial details is one thing, not explaining your disagreement with a proposition is another.
I remember Jonathan addressing this, too, but in my observation, this has gotten worse in recent months. It’s not the first time this has happened to me, and it’s not just me, either. I think the issue should be revisited.
As for whether my comment “deserved” a red arrow, I invite you to go back to my previous post (the one about target date funds and AI), scroll through the comments and my replies, and judge them in context. Also note that the comments that I’m replying to are not getting downvoted, so if my “Great suggestion” is offensive, why isn’t the original comment also worthy of a downvote? I’d also note that other writers will make similar replies of “Thanks!”—and not get downvoted. Like I said—judge for yourself, and if you still think I deserved those downvotes, I’m willing to listen to why you think so.