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I’ve been thinking of writing this post for a while, and my early morning scroll through recent Forum posts finally pushed me to it. When I author a post, I try to go back to it every so often and reply to comments. That was something Jonathan hoped for from the authors he published. In going through the thread of a post I made a few days ago, I noticed that one or two people had systematically downvoted every comment I made, even things like “Thanks! Great suggestion!”–completely innocuous comments that couldn’t possibly have offended anyone. The clear message of them has to be, then, “I don’t like you. I wish you’d go away.”
That’s happened to me before. I’ve also noticed it happening to a couple of other regulars and writers. I have several thoughts about this, followed by a suggestion.
My suggestion is that the owners/moderators of this site make a change. I’m not sure exactly what is possible on the Disqus platform. My preference would be to disable the upvote/downvote feature entirely. It really doesn’t add much to the conversation. I do know, because I’m a moderator for another site that uses Disqus, that it’s possible to attach board names to upvotes and downvotes–that’s what we do on that site–and that at least requires people to stand behind their “vote” rather than being anonymous. I honestly see no purpose for anonymous downvotes other than to be mean-spirited.
Thanks for considering this.
From engaging in the discussion here, I think there are two competing values in play:
The same larger value underlies both concerns: commenters should treat each other with respect. I believe and hope there’s a middle ground where both values can be addressed.
Just want to quickly chime in and say that I acknowledge this post and hear your concern. We will never be able to make all users happy.
I don’t know what the right course of action is, as I can see both arguments. For now, we’re keeping it as is.
I’m monitoring the comments and want to hear all perspectives. If you don’t want to comment here publically, please feel free to email me at bogdan@humbledollar.com with your thoughts on this topic.
Thank you for the reply, Bogdan. I appreciate the acknowledgment, even if I disagree with your decision to “keep it as it is.”
Whether a comment is ‘innocuous’ is often subjective. Because text lacks tone, people might hear an unexpected tone while reading quickly and react based on their current state of mind rather than the writer’s intent. A simple ‘thanks’ can be interpreted in many ways—as a genuine thank you, a polite dismiss ‘noted,’ or even ‘I agree.’
Since fewer than 1% of visitors actually engage, I believe we should be as welcoming as possible. We shouldn’t place any restriction on how people ‘leave their mark’ or ask them to explain anything.
Let me quote Elaine again, from her “Letter from Elaine” posting on November 22, 2025
‘My husband Jonathan often spoke to me about the overall kindness, civility and intelligence of the HumbleDollar community. Please do not prove him wrong.’
Honest question, not trying to be sarcastic:
If someone new (or old) does engage on the board and gets anonymous downvotes, do you think that feels welcoming to them? Is it kind and civil to them?
Reaction to anonymous downvotes is subjective—hurtful for some, instructional for others, and ignorable by many. Since we can’t know with certainty what prompts someone to cast a downvote, we are left with how we choose to engage with one another. I believe the best path forward is to focus our own energy on responding kindly, civilly, and intelligently—or perhaps choosing no response at all.
Thank you for at least acknowledging that anonymous downvotes can be hurtful, especially when they are in response to comments to which no reasonable person would expect a negative response. I would agree that downvotes are either hurtful or ignorable. I can’t see any possible way they’d be instructional. A downvote either communicates “I don’t like what you said” or even “I don’t like you,” but it gives no information as to why.
And you’re right that all of us get to decide how to react, whether to downvotes or to comments with actual content.
I’m not a fan of social-media-style commenting, and I think all opinions should be welcome as long as they’re respectful. Without editors, that’s admittedly difficult.
Anonymous downvotes don’t communicate anything useful—they don’t explain what someone disagrees with or why.
In online communities, much like loss aversion in investing, negative feedback has a stronger emotional impact than positive feedback and can discourage participation, especially thoughtful or minority viewpoints.
If someone disagrees, a brief comment is far more constructive than a silent arrow.
Downvotes should be removed.
I’ve noticed my comments regularly get an initial downvote before eventually moving into positive territory. Personally, I find it amusing and it doesn’t bother me in the slightest. That said, I’d prefer a critical comment over a silent downvote, at least then I’d understand what the issue is. Negative feedback, when it’s constructive, is just as valuable as positive feedback.
Same. I don’t mind engaging with someone who disagrees or is critical with something I’ve said. I participate in HD to learn from others–and I’ve learned a lot! Responding to disagreement/criticism sharpens my own critical thinking skills, and I might learn something new.
I think it is worth providing Jonathan’s reasoning about down votes in this discussion. I believe his comment indicates that he was more concerned about the negative impact of rants, especially those that were repeated over and over by the same person, on the HD community and its future than he was with down votes. The following comment, which Jonathan made less than a month before he died, received 64 up votes.
I believe HD participants should be able to express disapproval if someone repeatedly belabors the same point, especially if they label it as a rant, and they shouldn’t necessarily have to put themselves on the firing line to do so. So what should be the outlet for disapproval if someone chooses to rant and, indeed, admits that’s what they’re doing? Is ranting the goal here? A simple down vote seems pretty innocuous. Maybe the ranters need to show more self-control.
I personally share the concern Jonathan expressed about the impact on HD of threads and comments whose main point is to criticize the behavior of others. Jonathan’s plea that they stop has had no effect on their frequency that I can tell and now that Jonathan is no longer around to police them, they may acturally be attracting they type of people to HD that Jonathan hoped to keep away (i.e., those who enjoy criticizing others).
The problem is that non-“ranters” are getting bullied by downvotes. It doesn’t feel “innocuous” when you literally have no idea what you’ve done to elicit that expression of disapproval. It just leaves you in this bewildered space.
I agree with Kathy. The problems with “ranters” can and should be addressed by judicious moderation. On the other site where I’m a moderator (but not the owner), you start with reaching out privately to a person who’s not behaving well and asking them to please knock it off. If they don’t or won’t, you progress to saying something in the thread and sometimes even deleting offending comments or posts. The last resort would be a ban.
On the other forum I frequent, rants would be removed. Repeat offenders would have their posting privileges suspended. Egregious repeat offenders would eventually get booted. I have mentioned on other, similar, threads that there is a need for volunteer moderators on this site, but it has not born fruit.
Interesting discussion. Back when I commented more, I’d notice some of my innocuous comments would receive one or two downvotes early on…usually they were overcome by upvotes as time went on. I figured there were a couple lurkers that just didn’t care for me, or bored juveniles with nothing better to do…probably the same people who reflexively go after Quinn, Kathy, Dana and others. Nobody seem to go after Dan, though…hmm, what does that mean? 😉
Ken, I miss hearing from you. I actually have had a good number of down votes, they do not bother me. Sometimes my attempt at humor backfires, other times I take a position in support of someone who’s getting picked on for, what I feel, is no good reason.
Feel free to hit the red arrow🙀
Dan’s open secret: ElderBeerMen
maybe everyone knows this but Elder Beermen was a department store at/near Franklin Park Mall (now called something different) in Toledo.
Yes, many years ago, when my kids were very young, we were driving past the department store, I told them that the store was owned by a retired beer truck driver.
My oldest daughter said Really dad?
And I answered Yep, he’s an Elder Beer Man.
That silly joke survived and was modified into the actual ElderBeerMen🍻
While I see merit to both sides of the argument, I ultimately come down on the side of keeping the down-vote capability. I think the down votes allow valuable feedback that someone doesn’t agree with a given comment. Why should that feedback be discouraged, or “required” to leave a comment to express it? But to equate it to bullying is a bit much in my opinion. To me a down-arrow is nothing more than “I don’t agree”. For me it’s interesting to see how the community weighs in. A preponderance one way or the other is sending a message. I think that’s valuable. A few either way, is irrelevant and doesn’t mean much to me. Just my 2 cents. Gene
A down vote means “I don’t agree” with a comment like “Thanks! Happy New Year to you as well!” ?
That was literally one of my replies to a kind comment on one of my recent posts—and it got downvoted. What is there possibly to “disagree” with in that? I’m not meaning to be defensive here—I truly don’t get it.
It’s hard to find anything in life that can’t be abused. That hardly makes the case to discontinue it.
The “case” is that some people who are trying to participate in a constructive manner are being treated in a way that’s hurtful and disrespectful. No one is going to tolerate that forever.
Maybe you don’t care about the individuals being wronged by the “abuse,” and think we should just suck it up and ignore it. That’s your prerogative and your opinion.
On the other hand, perhaps you do care about the overall culture and long-term health of the community on this site. That’s my primary concern or “case” for bringing this matter up again.
I refrained earlier from commenting on the highly pejorative words you choose to use to frame your argument; “Cowardly”, “Immature”, “Lazy” and “Dishonorable”. I think those are inappropriate terms for using a function available in the application, presumably to be used, that Jonathan himself defended. Now you accuse me of being uncaring because I don’t agree with your argument. I don’t believe I deserved that. But congratulations, you’ve convinced me. HumbleDollar is no longer a place I feel safe sharing my opinion, no matter who respectfully I try to present it. I’m gone.
I would be sorry to see you go. Dana is simply articulating what the consistent, meaningless, down votes look like on the receiving end.
Well, I apologize that I offended you, both in my choice of words in the post and in my response to your comment. But this is exactly what I and others are getting at. You’ve articulated your concern and now I know what it is and can respond to it.
And since you were honest, I’ll be honest, too. I did think your previous comment was uncaring toward people who are being unfairly targeted by the abuse (your word) of anonymous downvotes: “hardly a reason for discontinuing it.”
That said, I appreciate that you engaged with me honestly, and I wish you well.
But “I don’t agree” with what? At the very least the arrows should be separate up and down, not cumulative.
Actually, I would support the idea of separate up and down counts. But to your question, I think the down arrow is a simple “I don’t agree”. Usually it’s pretty clear what the main point of a comment is presenting. If explanation is needed that option is still available.
As Dana has pointed out, some of us are getting down votes on completely innocuous comments. That is not disagreement, there’s nothing with which to disagree. It is bullying (and in some cases probably misogyny).
And this has drawn three down votes with no explanation. Maybe the misogynists don’t like being called that.
I have learned from many who have written articles or posts on this site, and from many of the comments. The votes are not useful to me. Nobody has a monopoly on good ideas.
Thanks for this one Dana, I find it sad that we seem to have lost some of our best writers. Another of my concerns is that a new contributor receiving the kind of down votes you describe, will become discouraged and leave the site.
Having said that, some ugly comments, such as those attacking another writer, or spewing political hatred, deserve down votes, and lots of them.
Finally, we need to take it easy on Bogdan, unlike Jonathan, he already has one full time job. Lets face it, could anyone really fill Clement’s shoes?
Thanks, Dana. As a fellow sufferer I entirely agree. What good reason is there for this comment to get a down vote: “Thanks Winston. Is that a vote for 4%?”
The other forum site I frequent manages fine without this feature. It also has active volunteer moderators who shut down excessive bickering. If Bogdan is too busy to moderate, and I entirely understand if so, he needs to recruit some volunteers.
I saw the down vote you mention, and just laughed. What are you gonna do?
I agree 👍👍 Welcome to my world. A simple question gets a down vote.
LOL, I just neutralized a down vote, Dick
Yes, you were definitely one of the people I was thinking of in my post.
The arrow is meaningless. You can’t understand consensus if you don’t know the meaning of the up or down arrows. When they are applied to benign questions I think people are just playing games.
If someone disagrees with or dislikes what I say, I want to know why and exactly what they disagree with.
Consider the flap over cartgate. Some people were incensed, but over what? The topic, the criticisms or simply my intentionally exaggerated description of the people being irresponsible?
If the latter, I would like to know why anyone would care in any case. I drew the conclusion, perhaps incorrectly, they recognized themselves. 😎
I couple of years ago Jonathan sent me a note saying he received numerous e-mails complaining about my positions- often repeated, about income replacement, budgets and something else I can’t recall.
He said he would block me if I didn’t stop because HD users thought I should accept the consensus of most people on HD – they were right and I was wrong and they did not want to hear my contrary views anymore.
I asked, but never saw the content of the e-mails. Now I am left again to draw my own conclusions. Did I raise issues that caused people to question their actions, did I make someone nervous? I have no idea.
So comment by all means, but let’s be specific and logical and I suggest reading a post twice before commenting to be sure the meaning is understood. I found myself jumping the gun an occasion and missing the point I was ready to comment on.
You have a very valid and strong point. I have never ever seen anything you have written that would deserve down votes. You also, kindly respond to anyone who makes a comment to you. It is disappointing when someone writes an article and their is feedback, but the OP doesn’t respond back. That doesn’t make good dialect and brings down the effort of expressing a thought to share.
I suggested to Jonathan several years ago to either remove the down votes, or show who is making them. He preferred to keep it as is.
One of my brokerages did away with down voting on their forum, it also exposed who did it. They made a change to where you can only ‘like’ a comment and shows who did it.
Down votes are a distraction and mostly not deserved. After a while you can almost get the feel for who is making them, unless they are a silent lurker. I would encourage anyone to find a tactful way to respond. I’m not the sharpest bowling ball, but I refrain from insulting anyone and I make attempts to reverse down votes when I see them. Unfortunately, time doesn’t let me read all comments.
I hope your article makes an impact on HD.
One difference between the previous go-round on this issue and now is that Jonathan is not here to moderate. If people got too nasty, he’d come in and say something. Bogdan doesn’t appear to be involved other than for the Saturday newsletter—I get it; I’m sure he has a busy life, but the upshot is that this forum no longer has a moderator.
Thank you for the kind words and for reversing downvotes!
Mrs. Elaine M. Clements’s comment on 12/28/25
“I monitor this website regularly, as does Mr. Sheremeta.”
Good to know. But that’s not the same as occasionally jumping in when things get out of hand as Jonathan would. As I said, I’m a moderator on another site, and I mostly let people have their say, but if someone crosses a line of violates house rules (e.g., politics or name-calling), I’ll say something or even delete or block someone if the behavior persists.
I’m not suggesting someone should be blocked for downvotes. Just making the larger point that Jonathan was hands-on in keeping things civil. I understand Bogdan is busy, and I certainly don’t think Elaine needs to be worrying about this right now. But the lack of moderation does change the atmosphere around here, which is why I thought I’d raise the issue again.
Jonathan’s defense of anonymous downvotes was made clear multiple times in his replies to articles similar to this. You can find one here.
While ‘Great suggestion!’ seems innocuous, it can create a false sense of consensus. Some may strongly disagree based on nuances that are too complex to debate in a comment thread, making even a simple compliment feel like a barrier to a more critical discussion.
If someone strongly disagrees, nothing to stop them saying so, with an explanation that it’s too complicated to go into details. Although it’s hard to see what situation would justify such a position. Not wanting to post financial details is one thing, not explaining your disagreement with a proposition is another.
I remember Jonathan addressing this, too, but in my observation, this has gotten worse in recent months. It’s not the first time this has happened to me, and it’s not just me, either. I think the issue should be revisited.
As for whether my comment “deserved” a red arrow, I invite you to go back to my previous post (the one about target date funds and AI), scroll through the comments and my replies, and judge them in context. Also note that the comments that I’m replying to are not getting downvoted, so if my “Great suggestion” is offensive, why isn’t the original comment also worthy of a downvote? I’d also note that other writers will make similar replies of “Thanks!”—and not get downvoted. Like I said—judge for yourself, and if you still think I deserved those downvotes, I’m willing to listen to why you think so.