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It was a halting and sleepless night. The latest Covid vaccine just became available. I got my jab yesterday. I felt great when I turned off the WNBA game at 10:30. I awoke at midnight with aching bones and a fever, and what sleep I managed to get was hit and miss.
Oh I know there are vaccine deniers out there that think that I’m stupid to get the shot, I respect that, but I’ve lost a half dozen friends and clients to the sickness, and know dozens more that nearly succumbed. I’m having too much fun right now to risk my life by defying the doctor’s orders.
I’ll feel better tomorrow. In a few weeks I’ll repeat the experience when I receive the enhanced flu shot. I just have to remember to not put anything on the calendar the following day.
I got the Moderna shot yesterday, because I have never had a reaction to Pfizer and wonder whether it’s working. Had a restless night and woke up with a sore arm and a temperature of 100.1. Had to keep sitting down. Am feeling a bit better, but maybe I’ll get the Pfizer shot next time!
The odds of my getting a serious side effect after nine shots has to be remote. The likelihood of long Covid if I were to get Covid is higher.
I’ve had both over time and the Moderna has always given me more of a reaction than the Pfizer. This time I got the Moderna and the flu shot at the same time. Definitely had a reaction and felt slightly lousy the next day. I’m going with the science and I’ll continue to get the shots as long as that’s the official recommendation.
We have used Moderna from the beginning and again last week. Only reaction was with first shot years ago that caused us to sleep for hours.
So many boomers still believing in what has turned out to be Mainly an illness of overweight or immuno-compromised people. If I were over 65, I might have jumped onboard at first. By premise of the title of this forum says something and give some pause and thought about where we are. “It’s Easier to Fool People Than It Is to Convince Them That They Have Been Fooled.” – Mark Twain
stackmchale, It appears you’re not be very trusting. Neither am I. The quote from Mark Twain is apocryphal:
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/did-mark-twain-say-its-easier-to-fool-people-than-to-convince-them-that-they-have-been-fooled/
“Who are you going to believe, me or your own eyes?” –Groucho Marx
When I see posts like this I wish they also mentioned the importance of maintaining and/or improving one’s overall health. Prescription drugs and vaccines have done wonders for preventing and minimizing suffering from a host of serious illnesses. But exercising, maintaining a healthy weight and eating fewer highly-processed foods can also do a lot of good towards preventing certain conditions.
The CDC has a good breakdown of the various comorbid conditions associated with increased risk of severe COVID disease.
Kristine, as the author of this post, I think that your comment is an excellent addendum. The link you provided is very informative.
We beat up the health care system for lower life expectancy and the high cost of care, but often fail to take responsibility for our crappy health habits.
Thanks Dan. I also wish more healthcare professionals would stress ‘personal health responsibility’ to their patients. I think they are sometimes too quick to prescribe medications for conditions just to avoid discussing the underlying reasons for those conditions.
As a retired orthopedic physical therapist I can tell you that a large percentage of the patientsmaladies were the consequence of very poor health habits.
I’ve been out of clinical work for over a decade and you had to tread so carefully addressing people’s responsibility for their conditions back then. I tremble at the potential consequences for medical professionals nowadays if they try to address patients’ taking responsibility for their own health.
Connie and I had the COVID and flu vaccines yesterday as we do every year. We had RSV last year. No adverse reaction. The first COVID we received when they were first available caused me to sleep for hours, but that was it.
yesterday was quite pleasant, the pharmacist asked if we were over 65, you don’t look like it he said. It was like being ID in a bar when your forty.
Good morning Richard,
My understanding is that the the RSV vaccine is currently not an annual shot.
Per the CDC website this morning-
Three RSV vaccines are licensed by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration for use in adults ages 60 and older in the United States.
CDC recommends everyone ages 75 and older get an RSV vaccine.
CDC recommends adults ages 60–74 who are at increased risk of severe RSV disease get an RSV vaccine.
If you have already gotten an RSV vaccine, you do not need to get another one at this time.
You can get one at any time, but the best time to get vaccinated is in late summer and early fall.
My two cents regarding getting COVID vaccines follows.
Our daughter has a lot of letters behind her name ( RN, FNP-BC, DNP) and was front line actively employed at a major hospital on the COVID floors during the peak of COVID. The amount of needless early death she saw from the refusal of people eligible and advised, by their personal physicians, to get a preventative vaccine has had negative impact on health care personal as well as the health and lives of that individual, their families and others.
If I choose not to be vaccinated I should also be willing to be a complete hermit and refuse to expose my grand children, family and friends or those health care professionals to disease or death from a contagious virus that I could mitigate by getting a vaccine shot.
I agree. Refusing to get vaccinated when it’s appropriate for your health status may be a “personal” decision, but it also affects everyone around you. If you’re not doing it for yourself, you might consider doing it for them.
Right, when we went to get it yesterday we were told we did not need RSV this year because we got it last fall. Didn’t know that before.
That’ funny Dick. Several months back I traveled with a friend of mine. He’s 85, I’m 72. The TSA agent stared at both of us and asked if we were twins. At least one of us got a good laugh.
I started wearing a mask again this AM when I went to the grocers. Wife and I have all the Covid shots,(6) and neither of us has caught the thing. At 78, with both having health issues we try to be careful.
I vividly remember in maybe the third grade standing in a line to get vaccinated with the Sauk Vaccine. I think there were several doses over some months, and then we went back several years later to get the 3 doses Sabin Oral Vaccine.
Then at age 21 upon going into the military I walked down through a group of medics getting many needles in both arms, including things like Bubonic Plague, Yellow Fever, typhus, typhoid fever etc……and polio again.
More recently there were shots for Hep A for a trip to China, 2 sets of different shingles shots, annual flu shots, 3 different pneumonia shots, Tdap, and last year RSV.
We will wait till mid-Oct to get Flu and Covid this Fall hoping that the immunity will last through the season.
As of mid April this year it is reported that something like 1.2million folks in the US have died from Covid since it began. Even if this is off by 20% still a large number.
After a lifetime of getting vaccinated, I don’t understand the fear.
I get all the vaccines. Pneumonia, shingles, Covid, tetanus, etc.
Not a ‘denier’, but similar to ‘IAD’ below, not a huge fan of that term. It’s loaded.
That said, there is no doubt in my mind that in the short and mid-term, the Covid vaccines work for the vast majority of patients. No doubt.
However, I am also pretty sure that in human history, there is no precedent for taking so much of one vaccine in our body over such a compressed time period without any long-term data to assess its impact. I’ve read of some people who have had six or seven doses of a Covid vaccine in the last 3-4 years. Can you think of any other vaccine that we have introduced into our bodies at that frequency? I can’t.
There is NO long term data on this subject because the history starts in early 2021.
Do I think there might be problems down the road? No. But the risk is not zero, by any means.
I just had Covid again for the third time (after flying). Case was mild, thank God. Probably due to my previous three doses of the vaccine, and having had Covid before, and my general good health. On my list of worries, the long term impact of this vaccine is probably not in my top 25. But it’s on the list, somewhere. More for younger generations, than my own.
I trust medical science. I hope they don’t let us down.
P.S. I would absolutely take the vaccine about 1 month before I fly again (assuming I’m eligible). I know many, many people of late who have gotten Covid shortly after flying.
I can second this, both my wife and have both gotten COVID post travel on separate trips since July. My next trip in three weeks I’ll be back to wearing an n95 in the airport and on the plane. Better than having to deal with another COVID bout.
Recently retired cardiologist here. I have cared for people with or know of quite a few jab related complications: near fatal myocarditis, heart attacks, pulmonary emboli, atrial fibrillation, stroke. My mother had congestive heart failure requiring hospitalization 48 hours post jab. Another relative had atrial fibrillation shortly thereafter. I cannot unsee this. Covid is not fun but at this time not as virulent, a few months ago my 100 year old father-in -law came through it , experiencing a few days of symptoms like a horrible cold, as did several 90+ year old patients of mine. I had the first two shots out of the box before I knew the mechanism but no more. The mechanism is that the shot forces your body to make a foreign material (spike protein) for you to build antibodies against. I realize that as a first time poster this comment will be suspect as from some anti-vaxxer- before this I believed in all vaccines! I was just surprised to see that everyone was still lining up to take these and my advice is to do some research beforehand -at least as much as one would do to figure out when to take Social Security!
A study published in 2021 in The Journal of Cardiothoracic Surgery reported, “The incidence of postoperative complications after (coronary artery bypass graft) CABG surgery ranges between 30 and 40%.
Per the CDC,”The two serious adverse events following COVID-19 vaccination currently used in the United States are anaphylaxis and myocarditis or pericarditis. It has occurred at a rate of approximately 5 cases per one million vaccine doses administered.”
I’m not very good at math, but that seems a lot safer, but if I were to be told it would be to my benefit to undergo either procedure I think I would.
Exactly what is “ quite a few” relative to the population?
isn’t is true there is a risk with just about any foreign matter we put in our bodies, any prescription drug, some handed out like candy?
Your family seems to be the epicenter for adverse reactions and none had underlying conditions or risk factors?
If we took the time to read the small print on a prescription we would never take any drug.
Correlation does not imply causation
As Kahneman and Tversky (and others) have shown, we are biased towards giving too much weight to personal experiences and anecdotal evidence. If you are serious in your desire to convince others not to get vaccinated then I think it would behoove you to provide us with research that goes far beyond what you have seen personally. In that regard, it is worth noting that 2.3% of deaths in the US last week were attributed to Covid.
It is also worth noting that there is a distribution of complications personally observed by physicans and it may simply be the case that by chance you observed a much greater than average number complications among people who had recently been vaccinated.
My younger brother, who had a co-morbid condition, died from COVID-19 in 2020. This undoubtedly influenced my decision to get the shot when it first became available, as Kahneman and Tversky might have predicted. I retired from the practice of medicine 2 years before the pandemic. I too am influenced by my own personal experiences, even though I realize a scientist must think objectively. Many of my physician colleagues were, and remain skeptical of the vaccines for COVID-19. Many critics of the vaccines look at different metrics when discussing their worth, like disease prevention. I look at the complication rate (very low) and the mortality data. In the April 2023 issue of J. Gen. Intern. Med., Baker and others reported on in-hospital mortality data of over 80,000 patients hospitalized between January 2021 and January 2022 for COVID-19. Having had a single vaccination lowered the rate of death by 40%. Three vaccinations lowered the death rate by 50%. The degree of protection was even greater for those over age 70 and who were obese. So, while the benefits may be much lower for healthy, young non-obese people, they are undeniable for elderly folks.
As a retired cardiologist, I’m sure readers will give your comments extra weight. But, before folks are dissuaded from getting vaccinated, can you back up your contentions with more than anecdotal evidence? Do you have statistical proof?
When financial advisors say to me that all investors are clueless, I respond that it isn’t surprising you believe that — because many of your clients come to you because they don’t know what they’re doing. By the same token, doctors spend their time seeing folks who are sick. But that’s a skewed sample. Folks who are perfectly healthy are less likely to rush to see a doctor.
Why should Mary be obliged to provide “statistical proof” to support her cautionary observations about the Covid vaccines’ potential negative side effects? Instead, shouldn’t the onus be on Covid vaccine enthusiasts to prove that mRNA vaccines are safe and effective — especially since no longitudinal randomized controlled trials have been performed to uncover the harm that mRNA vaccination might cause in some patients?
With regard to efficacy, we already know that the vaccines prevent neither infection nor transmission of the virus — meaning that the vaccines utterly fail to “stop the spread,” despite this being the putative rationale for vaccine mandates. We also know that our public health officials conspired to suppress informed skepticism about the vaccines’ safety, as well as official narratives about the origin of the virus.
If a fund manager had a track record like this, I doubt you’d be demanding statistical evidence from someone who urged caution about investing in the manager’s fund.
You claim that vaccines prevent neither infection nor transmission of the virus without providing any substantiation.
Here is a summary of one study that examined the effectiveness of Covid boosters.
May 29, 2024
Boosters that target the omicron subvariants of SARS-CoV-2 are still providing reasonably durable protection against infection, hospitalization and death from COVID-19, according to new data from a study led by researchers at the UNC Gillings School of Global Public Health.
Published today in the New England Journal of Medicine, the study found that COVID-19 boosters targeting the XBB.1.5 subvariants were most effective one month after receiving one. After four weeks, the vaccines were 52.2% effective at preventing infection and 66.8% effective at preventing hospitalization.
The vaccines were also highly effective at preventing death, but exact certainty was hard to quantify given the small number of deaths reported during the study period.
After peaking at four weeks, booster effectiveness waned over time. Effectiveness at preventing infection decreased to 32.6% after 10 weeks and 20.4% after 20 weeks, while effectiveness at preventing hospitalization decreased to 57.1% after 10 weeks.
https://sph.unc.edu/sph-news/study-shows-effectiveness-of-updated-covid-19-vaccines-wanes-moderately-over-time-is-lower-against-currently-circulating-variants/#:~:text=After%20four%20weeks%2C%20the%20vaccines,reported%20during%20the%20study%20period.
The NEJM study you cite is hardly reassuring, showing that even during the brief four-week period during which the vaccine was most effective, it was only able to prevent infection in slightly more than half the study’s cohort population.
Notably, the study says nothing about the vaccines’ ability to prevent transmission. I highlight this point because some commenters here, including the OP, have suggested that individuals have a social obligation to get the jab in order to protect third parties from becoming infected. Yet we’ve known since the famous Provincetown outbreak in July 2021 that vaccinated individuals who are infected can spread the virus as easily as unvaccinated infected individuals. See, e.g., https://boston.eater.com/22605934/provincetown-bars-restaurants-covid-19-delta-outbreak-july-recovery-masks
I don’t see Mary’s comments as dissuasive. Per her advice it’s good to do some research.
From the CDC
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/safety/adverse-events.html
For most folks not a big deal, but definitely evidence of adverse effects. And it looks like cardiologists would be some of the first to notice.
And just to reiterate what others have said, talk of “deniers’ is unnecessarily provocative and insulting with regard to the covid vaccine. Skepticism is absolutely necessary in science.
For most these vaccines are safe, but the development and approval process was significantly rushed due to the emergency nature of the pandemic. Now that the threat has significantly subsided, it is certainly worth further studying potential dangers that would have been uncovered in a normal approval process.
Do you think the further study you mention is not being done on a massive scale all over the world? Of course it is, and on an ongoing basis because both the virus and the vaccine are transitioning regularly.
I made no such insinuation and if you looked at the CDC link I included you would see that I know studies are clearly being done.
The point is that under normal circumstances those studies are completed before a vaccine is approved. It is the obligation of the drug provider to prove they are SAFE and effective.
Given that this process was rushed due to the emergency nature of Covid, one could expect to see adverse consequences of taking the vaccine that would have been caught under a normal approval process. Folks like Mary would be the first to see them. As such when they see anecdotal evidence of adverse reaction to this vaccine they should be taken seriously and studied further, as opposed to being dismissed as potential outliers.
The science called CRISPER used to produce the MRNA vaccines was well established prior to the COVID epidemic and was being used to produce “designer” immunologically based drugs for cancer before the pandemic.
If the normal approval process was utilized it potentially would have taken years to obtain approval. Just think of how many more millions of people would have died, and what the economy would be like now. If we had gone through the standard process.
EVERY medical intervention has side effects. The question is what percentage of the population feels the effect. In the case of the COVID vaccine it is minuscule.
But first I have to get the second shingles shot. The first was a doozy!
From my experience—clear your calendar for the day after you get the shot.
Also from my experience: actually having shingles (which I did in my 30s) was worse.
I’m jealous of your immune response. Each time I have received the vaccine I have had no side effects. When you get the response you did you know your immune system has been primed, I have always been left to wonder about mine.
Same here! BUT neither have I gotten Covid so maybe we have some super gene protecting us!
Unfortunately no super gene here. Have contracted COVID twice, but mild case the first time. Just a bad cough the second time, but Paxlovid is a miracle drug, felt 90% better in about two days.
I hate the term “vaccine deniers” as its so disingenuous.
I don’t know of anyone that is against vaccines…just the Covid vaccine. There is no point in rehashing the reasons to question the Covid vaccine, but painting those who have concerns regarding this “vaccine” as all-encompassing vaccine deniers is akin to using insults to win an argument.
I don’t begrudge anyone for doing what their view is best medically for them and their situation. I just wish the same level of information, legal options, and disclosures were public like all other vaccines.
“I don’t know of anyone that is against vaccines”
Maybe you don’t know any personally but if you think they don’t exist you haven’t been paying attention.
A quick internet search for the term indicates vaccine deniers present in the 19th century. I can think of many worse ways to describe folks that don’t do vaccines.
Novovax, the protein based Covid vaccine, is approved for this latest booster, along with the MRNA vaccines. Novavax was first offered in US in 2023. I tried Novovax last year with great success. I have an unpleasant immune response with MRNA vaccines: 36 hours of flu like systems, chills, fever, aches. I did not experience any unpleasantness with Novovax . Talk to your doctor about Novovax if you experience unpleasant responses to MRNA.
When I was around 30, I experienced a weird and painful headache while at work. It started with flashing lights and a coworker I spoke with about it said it was most likely a migraine. It occurred to me that this was perhaps my 3rd or 4th migraine ever. If you have ever had one, you’d understand how I would know how many I have had. For me, the pain was excruciating.
The good news? I only got one about every 7 years.
Until April 2021. That was the month I was jabbed twice with Pfizer’s Covid shot. The next day I had a migraine, then another one the next week. For the next 6 weeks, I had 1 every week. For the next year, I had 2-3 migraines a month. After about 1 year, they stopped.
So I agree with Dan: the shot works. Unfortunately, not in the way I was expecting.
The flu shot nor any other vaccine has ever done this to me, and I have had many of them.
Because of that, I no longer do any mRNA type vaccines. Covid is theoretical for me, but migraines are not.
I’m knocking on wood here. I’ve never suffered a migraine but have witnessed how debilitating they are. I’m not sure that I’d feel any different than you do in your situation.
Got the flu in one arm and Covid in the other-just like last year-2 weeks ago. I tolerate them pretty well with a temporary sore arm from the Covid. Also like last year, my wife spaced them out 2 weeks. We got juiced a bit earlier than what I would consider ideal as we have travel coming up.
Considering holding off on the Covid shot since I recently had Covid, and was pretty miserable for a large part of August and early September…figure I might have some natural immunity for the time being. Have been getting the shots in the past, but still didn’t help this summer.
Feel okay now, but still feel a bit weak, and the only shot I’m planning to get this fall is a flu shot.
From my reading about COVID immune response from an infection you probably have 3-6 months of strong immunity. Unfortunately everyone in our household had (mild) COVID this summer, so we’re waiting until mid November to receive our vaccines just before Thanksgiving so we should be well protected during the worst of the winter months.
We’ll get our COVID and flu shots probably in early October. I’m trying to time it to be effective during the holidays/worst of cold and flu season/our next big trip in February.
We had COVID during a surge in May 2022. I brought it home to both of us from campus, but we both had quite mild cases. I believed that being up-to-date on vaccinations helped with that.
My wife and I, both healthy and in our early ’60’s, are just now recovering from the latest Covid flavor making the rounds. We’ve both had multiple vaccines, but trust me–those vaccine side effects are small potatoes compared to the real thing. Covid is nasty, it’s not to be trifled with, and yes, it can kill you. Get that shot, and get it pronto! You’ll be glad you did.
We plan to get the updated vaccine a few weeks before Thanksgiving. Planning to go see elderly parents after Christmas. Chris.
Dan, we likewise got the latest Covid vaccine this week (Pfizer), and experienced very little effect—slightly sore arms and maybe a little fatigue for a day. I guess we’ve been lucky—this was our 9th go-round with the vaccines, beginning in March, 2021, and we’ve never had any bad after- effects.
The shingles shot was the worst in that regard, but a helluva lot better than getting shingles!
I think almost everyone finds that Shingrix has the most side effects. I had shingles that affected my left eye 10 years ago. Fortunately, acyclovir worked almost immediately and I recovered without any residual symptoms.
I had shingles in my 30s and just got the shots last year. The second shot in particular was no fun and I was sick in bed for a day, but I can assure you that actual shingles was MUCH worse.
Dr. Lefty is spot on! The Shingrix two shot vaccine is pretty miserable but I was only unhappy for about 24 hours post shot. I had Shingles in my twenties and was miserable for 6 – 8 weeks! Get the shots!
I took the shingles vaccine, two years ago, and felt sick after both shots. Ibuprofen was very helpful. I took the Covid jab last Saturday and all I got was a sore arm. Flu coming soon.
I’m scheduled to get my COVID and flu vaccines this afternoon. Just a personal opinion, from a retired immunologist, that it is a civic responsibility to both stay protected and to limit spead to those that are more vulnerable.
The Covid vaccines prevent neither infection nor transmission of the virus, and thus do nothing to “limit the spread.” How could a retired immunologist not know this?
Specifically, reduction in disease associated with infection, and minimizing load thus reducing level of transfer to others.
I totally agree Jeff.
Statistically, your chances of getting COVID increase significantly with age.
Since we’ve never had an issue with any vaccine (shingles shots hurt for a few days), we thought it prudent to get COVID shots along with our FLU shots.
We, thankfully, haven’t gotten COVID or FLU.
This is fairly numerate spot on the web. So, everyone, do your homework.
Wow, a Covid virgin! I’ve not had it either…. probably jinxing us.
Me either, despite spending an hour and a half sitting next to someone who came down with symptoms the next day (and I did test). Interestingly, my rheumatoid arthritis went into remission at the same time – maybe my immune system was too busy fighting off Covid to remember it had been attacking me. Can’t really recommend trying it, though, although I definitely recommend the vaccines.
I’ll get the Covid shot in the next couple of weeks, and the enhanced flu shot in mid-October. I was immuno-compromised during the worst of the pandemic and have had every Covid shot offered (nine). For some reason I hardly notice a Pfizer shot, but I get some mild effects from a Moderna.
I’m old enough to be in a high risk group even though I’m off the medication that suppressed my immune system, and I’m especially worried about long Covid. I also had one bout of flu a few years back that knocked me out for a fortnight. However, I am currently passing on the RSV vaccine – I’m not sure it was sufficiently tested.
We are getting ours in a few days. We have every vaccine available and never a problem. The first COVID shot knocked me out for a few hours, but later shots no ill affect.
i know a person who refused the vaccine and now has been seriously suffering from long COVID for well over a year and is miserable with affects on her immune system.