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We live in a small town in NJ, population 6,600. The median household income is $203,000, the median home value is $1,358,400 and the median property tax is $29,600. I feel like we live in a bubble and given these numbers are much higher than our state averages, which are third highest in the Country, I guess we do.
Between property taxes and HOA fees the minimum annual cost to live in our condo is $24,900.
We live here by choice, wanting to downsize and eliminate stairs a few years after retirement, but also wanting to stay in the same area – we live less than a mile from the house we had for 45 years. In fact, we live five miles from where I, my mother, grandparents and great grandparents grew up.
I knew long before I retired that relocating after retiring was never going to happen. Our roots and most importantly our family are here. We are very fortunate that all of our family are within an hour drive, not scattered around the country. We spend many weekends involved in family activities.
To see any significant decline in the above numbers, we would have to move out of NJ – way out. That means away from family and lifelong friends and that was never going to happen.
The other option was simply to move to our house on Cape Cod. The property taxes there are $2,800 a year, plus then there would only one home to maintain. I had that dream for awhile, but only a dream. Deep down I knew the reality.
As you see, there is a price to pay for our choices. We are fortunate to be able to make those choices, and not relying on relocation to make retirement affordable. Now you know why my views about retirement income are what they are, our expenses were not going down.
If moving to Florida or the Carolinas, as is popular in the East, or Arizona or anywhere sunny and warm is your dream, why not? Millions of seniors do just that.
From my perspective just do your best to assure it’s a real dream, not driven by financial necessity just to make your numbers and retirement date which you may come to regret.
Living in an almost as expensive NJ town, I have the same thoughts about moving. Our children are out of state – PA and CA. What keeps me here though, is friends and maybe as much: medical availability. It’s like Amazon – the NY suburbs get same day delivery- we also have same day choice of emergency or hospital care. Point of fact, NJ hospitals are in practice superior to NYC ones (personal experience).
Good points all.
Thanks for this, Dick. I have been a long-time reader and have always appreciated your perspective and comments. Your experience is hard to find and often hard to hear, because as many get older they stop being a voice or you can’t hear them because they don’t have a forum. Or they give up for fear of being seen as “outdated”. Sure, nothing runs or works like it did when it was done, but the perspective is invaluable, like any perspective. Honest, humble, distilled perspective is truly hard to find. You have earned a lot of respect for that. Thank you. On your point here, being about 15 years behind you we are still trying to figure out our next place. I used to give a lot of weight to finances, such as taxes, and I still do to some degree, but it is not the overwhelming factor. Family, friends, quality of life and access to what you like to do are most important. Especially for things you do daily — for those things the benefits add up quickly. Of course if finances are tight you must be realistic and know your highest priorities. Dean
Thanks 👍
As a regular reader (but very infrequent commenter) of Humble Dollar, I want to thank Richard Quinn for the many pieces he has written. In just this one article, you find Richard sharing the following about himself: his choices, his dreams, his views, his perspectives, his feelings, and his options. Sometimes I feel like I actually know Richard.
But, an even better aspect of Richard’s writings is his ability to get other readers to share their experiences. The expansive variety and frequent similarities of the commenters’ experiences has been very educational and comforting for me. Thanks to all of you.
A nice and appreciated comment. I’m sure Jonathan is pleased to know all the writers and commentators have made a positive difference for HD readers. The discussion here is like no other place I know of.
At age 43 my spouse was diagnosed with a chronic, debilitating illness. One solution was an ever increasing drug regimen and pain meds. I decided to look into the possible benefits of relocation. This was not our first choice. However, one winter we spent a couple of weeks in the Florida Keys and G experienced great relief. A trip to the western Caribbean had similar results. She realized that a change would be beneficial.
After that experiment I encouraged her to discuss relocating to a different climate with her doctors. One was skeptical, but one was enthusiastic. It took a while to get all things in place and mentally prepare. Meanwhile we travelled for relief when possible.
In 2013 we purchased a small RV and accelerated the plan; G took early retirement in 2014. I had previously shifted to consulting, thereby reducing my work hours and providing flexibility.
As time permitted we explored the options. I had travelled extensively for business and we visited some of my old haunts, with a list of desireable features. We visited other locations too and used the opportunity to visit National Parks.
Within two years we had made a decision to relocate and took steps to do so. We made purchase decisions in two locations, one in 2014 and the other in 2015.
We liked the small city in which we owned a condominium, and we had roots in the area. We were both born in the area and had family and friends in nearby communities. But the handwriting was on the wall. We maintained the condo for another 10 years, spending a few months of the year there. We reluctantly sold it in 2022.
If it were not for G’s illness this would not have occurred. My cancer was the second incentive.
These changes were difficult but necessary.
“ But the handwriting was on the wall.” Yes, my wife and I (ages 73/74) saw this coming eventually, so we are in the process of moving near a daughter’s family and a closer medical center. Hard to do, leaving long-time friends/connections, the ‘known’, inexpensive place—to go elsewhere. I think (hope!) that it will pay off in the long run. That remains to be seen. Staying here, the downside of the future is easier to see….
Unfortunately sometimes our circumstances are in control of our decision making.
As I shared in a Forum post awhile back, we’re mulling over the possibility of relocation after my imminent retirement. Our situation isn’t as straightforward as yours is:
So the variables include our own comfort level in the town that’s been home to us for decades, or staying in fairly easy range of my mom and siblings, or being closer to the family members who might need us the most, though that would mean a relocation that would be pretty jarring. It’s hard to sort this all through, which is why we’re taking our time about it.
Not an easy decision for sure
Thanks Dick you just answered my question of why so many folks are moving to my neighborhood, upstate SC. My property tax is approximately 6K a year for 4 acres and a 4K sq house. I don’t begrudge folks moving but they are destroying the very thing they are trying to find. Our infrastructure was not built to accommodate the thousands of new houses going up on former farms and fields and clear cut forests. Traffic has become a nightmare. The houses they are buying are cheaply built, real real cheap.
I understand you completely “they are destroying the very thing they are trying to find.” That is exactly what is happening on Cape Cod and many other places.
I live at the bottom of a small mountain, when we moved in it was all trees to the top where there is a reservation. Today seven years later the hillside is covered with 160 houses and two years ago on the last narrow strip was placed affordable housing. There is nothing left of some of the largest last open land in the county and NJ is already the highest population density state.
Relocation was the theme of my childhood – moving every 1.5 – 3 years. Less frequently as I “moved” into adulthood but still, I moved more than most. I don’t have a home town or state per se. But when I chose to retire at 62 I knew I was headed to Portland Oregon…my personal home of choice. I have lived here for 10 years as of my birthday in May and I’m living in my THIRD house! Moving is in my blood😁. But this last time was specifically for being “old” – 935 sq ft single level ranch! And now I know I would be very reluctant to move again because I am only a 3 mile bike ride away from my only grandchild and I love my neighborhood. I was part of his bubble from his birth through Covid. Portland is not inexpensive and housing is not cheap but I continue to make things work financially because Portland meets my personal choice and style. My youngest asked if I would give her child the same attention as the Wonder Child I am hard pressed to figure out how to do that since she is in Charlotte NC. But maybe I will relocate a few months each year to be close to any new child that may happen! Retirement has confirmed that family (even my very small one) is more important than the bottom line in my life.
Glenna, your story really resonates with me as we have similarities. I, too, have a daughter and granddaughter on opposite coasts – one in NY and one in Seattle. I live with my second husband in FL, which is definitely not my “happy place.” When we married, my children were already adults so that adds a layer of complexity to my intention to be very active in the lives of my grandchildren. Consequently, I travel a lot to be with one or the other family. If it were up to me, I’d move to WA to at least be closer to one of them (which would probably be a problem for my other daughter). Like you, being a part of their lives is more important to me than money, though I work like heck to minimize travel costs. I will be watching for updates from you when your second grandbaby arrives. Things would certainly be so much easier (for both of us, I imagine) if they lived closer to one another!
we have the same bi-coastal conundrum. not easy choices. modern problems of the rich.
Thx for sharing!
I was the corporate vagabond, and moved six times for work over my career. When I retired, taxes on our $350k home near Birmingham AL were about $1,200, state taxes were low and the quality of life was high. The retirement party was on Friday, we closed on the house the following Monday and jumped into the RV for a 2 year drive around the US. Officially, our residence was in South Dakota, so no state income tax, no property tax, and the freedom to see any friends and family anytime the schedule fits. In many ways, it was perfect. But like all things, this changed.
While visiting during a family wedding, we discovered a home for sale just 5 blocks from our daughter’s house in rural Iowa. (The real attraction was being near our grandson.) So we purchased the house as our final home. We knew nobody in this town, except our daughter. It is midway between Des Moines and Minneapolis, so weather is not a major attraction. Was this a good choice? I’ll let you know when my grandson receives his M.D.
we moved several times during our marriage to towns where we didn’t know anyone. I would not be scared to do it again. Pulling for you. Chris
I grew up in NJ, and moved to VA. Still have lots of friends up there. Between property taxes and HOA, you’re paying $80 per day. Every day. That would rub me the wrong way in a hurry. But I guess it depends on what it buys you, and being around family is certainly a wonderful benefit. I am quite sure if I were you, I would probably grin and bear it, as saving money at the cost of proximity to family is a bad trade. Lot of it depends, of course, on the quality of one’s relationships with family.
Not sure of your math on this one $24,900/365? But I get your point.
I assume John accidentally grabbed the $29,600 value from the first paragraph. That gets you about $80 per day.
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Dick, thanks for another thought provoking post. While we are traveling a point is always made, should this location be a possible relocation and de accumulation for our present location. With offspring scattered north and south who know where the roulette wheel will stop.
Very fortunate that my kids and grands are nearby … something i don’t understand about the folks who move to be with the kids This generation changes jobs the way I switch running shoes How does it work when you move and a year later they pick up??
George, we moved to be close to our kids and grandkids. We made the decision deliberatively, after a lot of thought and discussion. If their life situation changed and required a relocation, we would follow the same process and decide what to do. If retirement has taught me anything, it’s the value of being flexible and open-minded. I would also gently push back against the notion that decisions in retirement are final. It’s your retirement – you get to make the decisions and re-vector if you choose.
Good point. I heard of it happening.
I also had several employees who could not wait to get to Florida. They went, but sadly within a year or so one spouse died and the other was stranded and unable to afford to come back north nearer family.
I live in a high cost area also and recently retired. We moved here for family and a job and, like you, the majority of our immediate family live very close by. As we have been here over 2 decades now, we also have friends here. It’s not a bad place to live, but the funny thing is that due to cost and various other reasons this is not somewhere I would have chosen to live, but for family. And nobody in the family really wants to be here either – except for everyone else. It’s just where they grew up and put down roots. When we get together, everyone talks about the grass being greener elsewhere, but so far nobody has made a move and the families get larger and more entrenched. So it is a bit of a chicken and egg situation.
Fortunately, we can afford to stay, but would rather not. And even if we stay in the area, staying in our current home is not practical for the long term. As we lived below our means and bought less house than we could afford years ago, a move in the area would likely wind up costing more as opposed to the “downsizing” most do after retirement. Again, we are fortunate that we could do this if necessary, but who likes to pay more money after retirement?
Alas, I expect we will wind up moving in the area and paying more despite our constant dreaming about going to a less expensive, less populated area with a better climate. I see winter rentals in our future.
I hope to see more writings from you. Well done!
That’s similar to us. When we bought our condo I told our realtor (our son) that our house must sell for the same amount or more. We took a mortgage on the condo thinking it would be for only six months or so.
It turned out to be over a year and the net proceeds from selling our house were over $50,000 less than the cost of the condo so we had to pay that extra to pay off the condo mortgage.
One glitch was an underground oil tank. We had it emptied, certified no leaks and filled with sand years before. Even so, we could not sell the house with the tank and had to pay to pick up the driveway pavers and remove the tank. Stress and more stress.
we rent a few weeks in Florida during Feb/March
Looking at family, friends, and hundreds of coworkers, there are so many individual family stories that it’s impossible to generalize. I feel for retirees who have children, and extended family, spread across the country. A friend of my wife has children in Portland, Or, Houston, and Pittsburgh. None are near their hometown of Allentown, PA. We made the choice to relocate near our children and grandchildren, and we are very happy we did it.
I sometimes think about our ancestors who left their homes to relocate to America for economic opportunity, or freedom. My wife’s grandparents left Ireland and Italy as very young adults, never to return. They were able to build new families in America. But it must have been difficult to never see their parents again.
Our families did the same from Ireland and Italy. My great, great grandfather came here during the potato famine.
Not even Billy Joel stayed in Allentown 😉
No problem for people who love and want to stay rooted where they grew up.
But for those who have had multiple relocations in life they potentially leave a lot of money on the table if they want to stay where they were by virtue of their last job. And there is massive geographic arbitrage* to be had in shifting from a major city (think Manhattan or San Francisco) to somewhere where there will be less traffic, less city hassle, less dirt, less noise etc. I always say it almost doesn’t matter what career you have in a big expensive city, provided you can get a property paid off you’re golden for retirement (different story if you’re a renter).
*there are some limitations to geographic arbitrage of course – you’re not going to find houses in Aspen or Palm Beach or Jackson, WY particularly cheap.
As I said if relocation is the choice, go for it.
For what it’s worth I absolutely agree with your position – if your life, personal connections, family are all rooted in the same place it would be crazy to uproot it. It’s absolutely critical to weigh in all the “rewards” beyond the financial. Personally if I was you I’d have had no qualms about relocating to Cape Cod but I guess your wife might have had a deciding call on that.
But not all people are in the same position. Perhaps their hobbies and interests are incongruent with their current location, perhaps their adult offspring have dispersed. Perhaps their dreams have always been about somewhere else and retirement is their chance to break a rut. Perhaps they see homes as purely functional not places of emotional attachment.
I think people are rarely “forced” to relocate for financial reasons although there is no doubt that communities like your own probably end up becoming self reinforcing when it comes to economic apartheid. But for those with any of the other reasons to relocate they’d be unwise not to also factor in economics. After all in later life stubbornly staying put can equally be a problem for loved ones who have to commute back for care etc or wrestle with a late decision to move you somewhere closer to them where you lack any other network.
I’ve seen this with a friend and former colleague of my mother. She was developing dementia so her daughter moved her to an appartment close to her in order to be able to check on her daily. But the result is she is now totally socially isolated from the rest of her network and no longer in a position to make new connections. Would have been far better in hindsight for her to make the move much earlier e.g. post her husband’s death.
BBB, thank you. ITA with the later parts of your comment about parents who are starting to need more help and the “kids” in their 60s or older live away. This is exactly what we are going through now with Spouse’s mom. It is frustrating. Chris
Regarding geographic arbitrage, I used to joke that the retirement plan for folks in NYC, who spent their careers paying off hefty mortgages, could be summed in one word: Florida.
I’ve lived in Florida all my life. Our kids moved to Virginia, and we’re planning on following them. My wife especially is tired of the hot weather, getting hotter every year. Also getting tired of our votes not counting anymore.
Every vote is counted.
Yes, but in a winner-takes-all system, those that voted for the loserare not represented in the decision-making process.
“Now you know why my views about retirement income are what they are, our expenses were not going down.”
But that’s no reason to impose your views on others. Just because you couldn’t afford to retire early doesn’t mean others can’t – and can do so without major compromises. You mention the Carolinas – I’ve lived in North Carolina for fifty years, no need to move, although I believe the costs in the Research Triangle area are a bit above the national average, and are higher still around Asheville. My property taxes and HOA fees the last year I owned a house (2022) were 13% of yours. The income tax rate this year is 4.25%.
I also don’t understand why you get upset about the cost of CCRCs when your costs for living independently are so high.
Why can’t I give my views/opinions like everyone else without being accused of imposing them?
I have no authority, I don’t force anyone to agree with me.
I agree Dick. I have been thinking this for quite some time.
Kathy please give it a break. The constant provoking of Dick on nearly every one of his posts is tiresome.
Funny, I find the provocation goes the other way.
If Dick didn’t keep going on about how much money is needed for retirement, I wouldn’t feel a need to point out that it can be done on less.
Your second paragraph above perfectly states your apparent prejudice towards Dick’s posts. I think your feelings on the subject are well known by now, and thus a temporary reprieve would be appreciated.
If there is going to be a reprieve perhaps it needs to be bilateral or multilateral in fairness.
Otherwise it looks like something rather patriarchal.
Why is my opinion (not feeling) considered a too frequently expressed “prejudice”, but Dick’s is not? Surely his opinions are even more well known, and more frequently expressed. If he had omitted the sentence I quoted I would not have responded the way I did.
I too live in an expensive place in a HCOL state. Well, Connecticut is somewhat less expensive than Manhattan, but not much, so I did save some expenses when I retired.
There’s really no point in saving up a lot of money if you can’t live the way you want to live when you retire!
That’s how I see it.
We live in Moncolva, OH, population 6600. Our newly completed stand alone forever home is 1900 sq.ft. and about ⅓ the value of your place. Property tax about 1/5 of yours. HOA fee is $180 per month. COLA here is so reasonable that our SS, along with a 3% IRA distribution equals about 135% of total expense. Three of the grandkids live 5 minutes down the road, and the other four are a reasonable two hours west in South Bend, IN. I have been to see them five times so far this year, they have been here several times as well.
The climate here is relatively free of catastrophic events; we had a significant tornado about 10 years ago, and a pretty serious blizzard back in 1978.
We could afford to live somewhere else, but with family and friends close by, predictably decent weather, and very favorable cost of living there is no compelling reason to go.
As for the idea of replacing 100% of your income; it may not be important to everyone, but for us the excess income contributes to a stressless lifestyle.
What do you get from the HOA for $180? (never been in one)
👌🏼👍🏼
When my wife and I married (2nd time for us both), we discussed and confirmed our intent to remain in Raleigh, NC. She sold her home and I sold mine. We bought a home together. Compared to the numbers Dick quotes, both our income and cost of living are much less, and we’re doing fine.
We have friends, social contacts, and a Church home that are very meaningful for us both. Both of my sons were enlisted military, so there was no constancy of a home-base. The youngest has left the military and for now lives about 30 minutes drive from us, but that is likely to change. One of my wife’s daughters is committed to living in the Asheville, NC area, and the other was still in school when we first met. She now lives in Brooklyn. There’s no way to be close to them all. We visit as much as we can, talk on the phone, FaceTime with grandkids, and find time to be part of their lives.
This is an interesting reflection, Dick. I am glad you were able to make it work to stay near your families all your life. It is very different than how Spouse’s and my lives were/are. We have lived away from our extended families for over 40 years now. When we were raising our kids, we made regular trips back to visit twice a year. After they grew up, the visits became less frequent. Both of our kids ended up settling in the same town, and we decided to move to be near them. We didn’t want the separation and not knowing them like we did with our families of origin. So far it is working out. It is nice to have family to come over for family dinners and celebrate holidays with. And grandchildren to be a real part of their lives. We didn’t have a lot of that for so many years. Chris
I know many people who upon retirement just picked up and left for Florida or North Carolina, one whose children were still in college at the time.
The idea for some is that children will come visit them, but I think they forget the busy lives their working children may be living.
Yes. As the years went on it was so hard to visit our parents and one set was better about coming to see us than the others. I don’t miss the 12 hour drive we used to do when our kids were young. We live closer now to our parents, and they are elderly so can’t come see us anymore. It is still hard to go see them since sometimes we watch our grandkids who are close by. We did and do what we can, but it was/is never enough, it seems. Thank you for validating Spouse’s and my situation. I think people don’t understand. I know some of our siblings don’t, but that is another story. Chris