AUTHOR: bbbobbins on 10/11/2024 FIRST: Ben Rodriguez on 10/11/2024 | RECENT: Billy McKelvy on 10/15/2024
Comments:
Well no and yes. I think it's unlikely to be a thread that provides insightful actionable answers that will improve the lot of every prospective retiree but quite likely to produce a bunch of anecdotes about people who have squandered chances relatively to the oh so prudent HD readers. Part of what makes humans interesting is that we're all individuals (Cue Life of Brian) but it does mean that we're the products of all sorts of forces from the genetic lottery to parental investment, education, training, peer pressure, romantic choices, breeding choices even before we get to pure luck/misfortune and our own self inflicted harms. Sin of projection below seems pretty apt to me. Maybe people in general are happy to work to or through SS age if they enjoy what they spend on on the journey. Maybe they don't have a choice but make the best of what they have.
I think risk generally is pretty poorly understood. I'd argue that the main problem for many is that they don't take enough risk - that CD or assured bond or flim flammy vehicle that promises upside while limiting downside. Unlikely to long term match the performance of some basic equity indices. Much of my preparation for retirement has been trying to prepare myself fully for the reality that there will be down days, months, years even for my portfolio yet as the money is there for 30 (or hopefully more years there is plenty of time to recover. And if I reach say 85+ sitting on a decent pot so what if I lose a bit then - there will be a point where my investments will almost certainly outlive me. I think I'm getting there mentally. The real risk with risk is that you spend so much time fretting about it that it affects your quality of life. Or do so much tinkering to attempt to mitigate it you destroy value. None of this is is advocating of course that everyone should HODL on the latest meme stock or liquidate everything into crypto etc .
Is this just another punching down thread? Why don't people save enough? Because they are people. Same as why do people go bankrupt with mcmansions, holiday villas, boats and big RVs? Why do people serially choose incompatible spouses and endure multiple divorces? Why do people get addicted to booze, drugs, unhealthy food?
While I wouldn't criticise the no-goers for their preferences and think there is probably a bit of overdoing it in not always the most nuanced way for cruiseaholics, I do think if you have some bucket list things is really makes no sense to delay exploring them. Europe is at most a 10 hr direct flight from Phoenix and the Alps and the Dolomites are at least the equal of the Rockies. Even limiting yourself to UK & Ireland you'd see more greenery, sheepdogs, stately homes and castle ruins than a lifetime in the American West. And a infinite number of hill/moor paths to wander with the prospect of a nice pub or tea room at the end of it. And everyone speaks some variety of English (as to be fair most people do in most places you'd go in continental Europe). And it doesn't have to be all blow out Grand Tour budget. Modest rental cars and B&Bs are available. A National Trust /English Heritage membership etc would get you into a lot of sites.
I don't think the UK is a good example. The NHS while excellent in many things it does in terms of clinical delivery has many inefficiencies and frustrations from use of GPs as gateways to care (when there is insufficient appointment capacity) to prolonged snail mail based appts. And part of the problem is being free at the point of use which leads to abuse in missed appts or for trivial things addressable over the counter at a pharmacy. Plenty of European systems that combine state provision of services (hospitals etc) with a direct mandatory insurance scheme. Even if people won't see it the US system has grown the way it is because of a lack of regulation and government control. 3rd party insurers are just middlemen sucking juice out of the system to the detriment of citizens. They are never at real risk of a loss and one might challenge whether execs etc are really adding the same value that peers at more innovative companies do. We could also question what sort of lifestyle do doctors and healthcare execs fund on their earnings relative to comparable countries. I think blame the citizens for a system they didn't create is a very harsh view. Of course the system is fiendishly complex, involves people taking risk and probability decisions they are simply not equipped for and it is tragic that a single misstep can lead to financial ruin or missing out on essential care. I also think it leaves people indentured to employers for far longer than is necessary or even healthy.
I love music. Back when I was in college I'd go to one or two gigs a week. Often big acts of the time. Nowadays really can't be bothered with the whole circus of getting tickets when they drop, the usury of ticketmaster fees (why oh why do you get caught in that trap even for minor league hockey games etc) and of course late night travel back
There are worst thing in relationships than working through a bit of infidelity and coming out the other side. And pragmatism and compromise does have a role. The other thing is we're usually really bad about judging other people's relationships. The perfect, happy couple often aren't, the "I can't imagine how those 2 are together" may have a deeper bond than they present.
So why not state that that rather than the "whatever you fancy" implication of a bottomless credit card? You've managed in this thread alone to present your own definition of something that most people have no problem with addressing in their own way, and which ultimately turns out to be similar to yours once we cut through your choice of language ( though I suspect your emergency fund has at least 1 more zero on it than most) yet you say you disagree with most who've attempted to engage.
No to me - "whatever you fancy" implies what it says having enough for anything I fancy without worry. Kinda like having no "if you have to ask the price" constraint . I suspect most people haven't lived their working lives like that so it seems odd wording to me as a definition of "comfortable". A far better definition IMV would be "whatever you fancy provided it doesn't take your monthly expenditure over 100+X% of average/budget".
Comments:
Well no and yes. I think it's unlikely to be a thread that provides insightful actionable answers that will improve the lot of every prospective retiree but quite likely to produce a bunch of anecdotes about people who have squandered chances relatively to the oh so prudent HD readers. Part of what makes humans interesting is that we're all individuals (Cue Life of Brian) but it does mean that we're the products of all sorts of forces from the genetic lottery to parental investment, education, training, peer pressure, romantic choices, breeding choices even before we get to pure luck/misfortune and our own self inflicted harms. Sin of projection below seems pretty apt to me. Maybe people in general are happy to work to or through SS age if they enjoy what they spend on on the journey. Maybe they don't have a choice but make the best of what they have.
Post: The Que sera, sera retirement planning strategy.
Link to comment from January 21, 2025
I think risk generally is pretty poorly understood. I'd argue that the main problem for many is that they don't take enough risk - that CD or assured bond or flim flammy vehicle that promises upside while limiting downside. Unlikely to long term match the performance of some basic equity indices. Much of my preparation for retirement has been trying to prepare myself fully for the reality that there will be down days, months, years even for my portfolio yet as the money is there for 30 (or hopefully more years there is plenty of time to recover. And if I reach say 85+ sitting on a decent pot so what if I lose a bit then - there will be a point where my investments will almost certainly outlive me. I think I'm getting there mentally. The real risk with risk is that you spend so much time fretting about it that it affects your quality of life. Or do so much tinkering to attempt to mitigate it you destroy value. None of this is is advocating of course that everyone should HODL on the latest meme stock or liquidate everything into crypto etc .
Post: Do you understand your tolerance for risk? Really, honestly? I’m not sure most of us do. By RDQ
Link to comment from January 21, 2025
Is this just another punching down thread? Why don't people save enough? Because they are people. Same as why do people go bankrupt with mcmansions, holiday villas, boats and big RVs? Why do people serially choose incompatible spouses and endure multiple divorces? Why do people get addicted to booze, drugs, unhealthy food?
Post: The Que sera, sera retirement planning strategy.
Link to comment from January 21, 2025
While I wouldn't criticise the no-goers for their preferences and think there is probably a bit of overdoing it in not always the most nuanced way for cruiseaholics, I do think if you have some bucket list things is really makes no sense to delay exploring them. Europe is at most a 10 hr direct flight from Phoenix and the Alps and the Dolomites are at least the equal of the Rockies. Even limiting yourself to UK & Ireland you'd see more greenery, sheepdogs, stately homes and castle ruins than a lifetime in the American West. And a infinite number of hill/moor paths to wander with the prospect of a nice pub or tea room at the end of it. And everyone speaks some variety of English (as to be fair most people do in most places you'd go in continental Europe). And it doesn't have to be all blow out Grand Tour budget. Modest rental cars and B&Bs are available. A National Trust /English Heritage membership etc would get you into a lot of sites.
Post: No “Go-Go” by Kristine Hayes Nibler
Link to comment from January 15, 2025
My favourite quote, possibly even said, John Sedgwick "They couldn't hit an elephant at this distance....."
Post: Didn’t Say That by Jonathan Clements
Link to comment from December 8, 2024
I don't think the UK is a good example. The NHS while excellent in many things it does in terms of clinical delivery has many inefficiencies and frustrations from use of GPs as gateways to care (when there is insufficient appointment capacity) to prolonged snail mail based appts. And part of the problem is being free at the point of use which leads to abuse in missed appts or for trivial things addressable over the counter at a pharmacy. Plenty of European systems that combine state provision of services (hospitals etc) with a direct mandatory insurance scheme. Even if people won't see it the US system has grown the way it is because of a lack of regulation and government control. 3rd party insurers are just middlemen sucking juice out of the system to the detriment of citizens. They are never at real risk of a loss and one might challenge whether execs etc are really adding the same value that peers at more innovative companies do. We could also question what sort of lifestyle do doctors and healthcare execs fund on their earnings relative to comparable countries. I think blame the citizens for a system they didn't create is a very harsh view. Of course the system is fiendishly complex, involves people taking risk and probability decisions they are simply not equipped for and it is tragic that a single misstep can lead to financial ruin or missing out on essential care. I also think it leaves people indentured to employers for far longer than is necessary or even healthy.
Post: CLUES LEFT BY A KILLER ECHO WIDESPREAD ANGER AT HEALTH INSURERS
Link to comment from December 6, 2024
I love music. Back when I was in college I'd go to one or two gigs a week. Often big acts of the time. Nowadays really can't be bothered with the whole circus of getting tickets when they drop, the usury of ticketmaster fees (why oh why do you get caught in that trap even for minor league hockey games etc) and of course late night travel back
Post: Things That Don’t Much Interest Me No More
Link to comment from December 5, 2024
There are worst thing in relationships than working through a bit of infidelity and coming out the other side. And pragmatism and compromise does have a role. The other thing is we're usually really bad about judging other people's relationships. The perfect, happy couple often aren't, the "I can't imagine how those 2 are together" may have a deeper bond than they present.
Post: Price of Playing
Link to comment from December 4, 2024
So why not state that that rather than the "whatever you fancy" implication of a bottomless credit card? You've managed in this thread alone to present your own definition of something that most people have no problem with addressing in their own way, and which ultimately turns out to be similar to yours once we cut through your choice of language ( though I suspect your emergency fund has at least 1 more zero on it than most) yet you say you disagree with most who've attempted to engage.
Post: The quest for a comfortable retirement. RDQ
Link to comment from December 4, 2024
No to me - "whatever you fancy" implies what it says having enough for anything I fancy without worry. Kinda like having no "if you have to ask the price" constraint . I suspect most people haven't lived their working lives like that so it seems odd wording to me as a definition of "comfortable". A far better definition IMV would be "whatever you fancy provided it doesn't take your monthly expenditure over 100+X% of average/budget".
Post: The quest for a comfortable retirement. RDQ
Link to comment from December 4, 2024