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Here is my second Forum post. This one is also touches on one my favorite topics – careers
Another week. Another flood of LinkedIn goodbye posts.
Talented people thanking colleagues after being locked out of their systems. No chance to pack their desks. No final email. No dignity.
Some companies now send layoff notices at 3:00 a.m. Others run two Zoom calls at the same time—one for those “safe,” another for those gone. Ten minutes. Meeting over.
Let me ask this plainly: When did this become acceptable?
And to those still employed—are you relieved? Or just quietly shaken, wondering when it’s your turn?
I use the word love deliberately. When employees are treated as expendable line items, layoffs become the easiest lever to pull. Convenient. Fast. Emotionless.
But organizations that truly believe “people are our greatest asset” don’t behave this way. They hire carefully. They plan responsibly. And when separation is unavoidable, they act like adults—with empathy, transparency, and respect.
I’ve laid people off in my 40-year career. I’m not proud of it—but I am proud of how it was done. Performance-based. Thoughtful. Humane. People were given time, support, and their self-worth intact.
That standard is disappearing.
Here’s the uncomfortable truth: Large companies need collective representation for salaried employees and managers. Especially when mass layoffs are on the table. Decisions of this magnitude should not happen behind closed doors with only financial voices in the room.
This isn’t about protecting poor performance. It’s about protecting basic human decency.
Maybe it’s time to study how parts of Europe and Asia handle workforce reductions—what they get right, and what we can do better. And maybe—just maybe—the Chief People Officer should have as much influence in the C-suite as the CFO.
So I’ll ask what many are afraid to say out loud: Have we lost our values when it comes to layoffs—or do we still have the courage to reclaim them?
👇 Thoughts? Disagreements? Hard truths? Let’s talk. #layoffs #careers #values #culture
“Large companies need collective representation for salaried employees and managers.”
Agree 100%. Bring the spirit of ’76 into the 21st century – No work without representation!
I was working at a place with a layoff going on.
A gal left the bosses office crying after being laid off. I’m ashamed now that I thought that’s the way the world works.
But I realize now, that is exactly what US colonists thought in 1760 – that’s the way the
world works with the UK running America with no say from those affected.
People affected by potential layoffs SHOULD have a say, and a look at the true financials.
If there is legitimate hard times, they can make collective decisions that may be much better.
For instance, volunteers working less hours.
Instead of brutal layoffs like the gal who might have just got a huge mortgage.
Especially when so many layoffs are just to shovel even more $$$ into the CEO’s grubby hands, including massive golden parachutes when they do a lousy job.
A business isn’t a democracy: it’s a for-profit organisation owned by the people who put their capital at risk. Ownership carries the right of control, full stop, and that holds whether you have two employees or twenty thousand. Employees are absolutely entitled to the wages they’ve earned and to respect — but that entitlement stops well short of representation on strategic and operational decisions. That authority belongs to the owners, or to the management they choose to delegate it to. Handing control to people who bear none of the financial risk is simply unfair to those who put up the money.
I ran a small business with around fifty employees. The idea that I should have been legally or morally required to consult them on running my own company is frankly absurd. Want a say in how the business is run? Put financial skin in the game. That changes the equation entirely
.
Thank goodness the Continental Army was not represented by a labor union.
I agree that every employee whose job must be terminated deserves to be treated with consideration and respect, and to some degree they deserve that treatment even if their termination is for cause. However, beyond that, I have many areas of disagreement with your post, and I’d bet there are many like me who chose to remain silent. In competitive markets, some businesses are run poorly and you have to expect they will falter or fail, and they will do the acts of severance poorly, too. But the competitive market, especially a volatile market that now includes large and powerful international competitors, exerts its own discipline. That often includes surprises and forced actions that cannot be predicted or cushioned. More people in the room doesn’t help when their personal interests take precedence over the firm’s. One must always be alert to one’s own risks, and sometimes we choose our career path poorly or suffer despite our best efforts. (Which takes me back to my first sentence.)
Martin – My post is about the How of layoffs. You do say we need to do it with care. I would like to hear the other areas of disagreement with my other points.
The county I work for is facing a budget deficit. During a recent webinar on the budget, upcoming layoffs were discussed. Several people asked about early retirement incentive packages. This was dismissed by leadership because it would require putting this option on the ballot for county residents to vote on. The budget crisis was not a surprise, they saw it coming and either decided not to entertain the incentive package as an alternative or were just disorganized. Offering voluntary early retirement incentive packages seems more empathetic than laying off employees with families to support and mortgages to pay. But maybe offering early retirement incentive packages really doesn’t save much money compared to laying people off?
I was let go as a COVID casualty in 2021 after a decision was made to discontinue the initiative I was transferred to in 2019.
Wasn’t done perfectly.
Clearly, I could have done a better job preparing. After the transfer to a new position in a brand new unit, the writing was on the wall. I chose to stay, but my trust in the organization wasn’t matched. That was a surprise, and disappointing.
In particular, on the phone call where I was advised my employment ended that day (I was working mostly remotely), I didn’t appreciate a suggestion from HR that my involuntary separation would be communicated and recorded as a “retirement”. Obviously, they misunderstood how unemployment compensation works (or they didn’t care).
However, I have been on the other side of what I used to call “economic capital punishment” – having to explain how the organization’s benefits function after separation. I did my best to guide individuals in all of the options and value possible – even after separation – specifically highlighting that benefits, when subject to ERISA (such as your DB pension, your 401k, even your health plan) are themselves legal entities separate from your former employer.
More than once I saw the light come on among distressed workers on how their current decision-making could still improve the value obtained from their benefits.
One prior comment I agreed with is preparation, being honest with workers about business conditions. For me, “being decent” isn’t limited to the severance package, but is better achieved by “being honest” about the sustainability of the business, and employment.
From personal experience layoffs are a tricky subject and there’s a great deal of nuance.
For the largest of companies that have 10s of thousands of employees there can be many factors which drive layoffs. Whether it be economic conditions, change in direction of the company, management or mismanagement, or simply pleasing Wall Street! For many reasons the process for performing layoffs may seem sterile but unfortunately from an HR and business security perspective it has to be. Many employees for large companies receive very generous severance packages.
For small companies there is little incentive to let people go, they are our number one resource. It can take a long time and financial resources to replace the employees further down the line. But circumstances outside of the business’ control can make layoffs a necessary evil in order to keep the doors open.
I work in the architecture and engineering field. In July 2008 it was announced that I would manage our local office of about 50 employees starting January 1, 2009. In July 2008 business was booming, and we couldn’t hire someone if we tried. September 15 Lehman Brothers filed for bankruptcy.
By January 1, 2009, I inherited an office with a rapidly declining book of business as clients cancelled projects. We were a satellite office and also navigating the proclamations received from ‘mothership’. On the personal side of things my was wife was laid off while I was simultaneously planning a business future with fewer employees.
Without doubt this was the hardest time of my career. Not because of the long hours spent trying to keep the business viable but because letting people go was so emotional and stressful. I knew everyone personally and knew the impact this would have on their families / personal life. The list of those to be let go changed 3-4 times a day as I sweated the details and consulted with senior colleagues. If skillsets were similar, what if one employee has two young children and mortgage and another a single person who rented an apartment? Is there a right answer? There were many other factors to account for.
I still lose sleep over the day when the layoffs were made and unfortunately had to repeat the process in January 2010. The plan for our office was to avoid the weekly lay-off scenario. We also wanted to reassure retained employees that all things being equal we had a plan for the rest of the year. We watched from afar the weekly torture in other parts of the company.
From a purely $ numbers perspective being ahead of the curve actually saved jobs long term. When I received calls from mothership to cut more people, I simply declined, indicating that our business was in equilibrium and we were not the problem! I fully expected to be locked out of my computer the next day.
Even though we carefully prepared with HR and tried to be as humane as possible during the lay-off process, I am sure the only thing the affected employees heard was the fact they no longer had a job. Severance packages, COBRA, resources we would make available to find new employment, in one ear out the other. Understandably so.
HR demanded that e-mail be shut down. We negotiated the ability for employees to retrieve personal information from computers and to copy information that would help them to update their resumes/portfolios, under supervision, and allowed the affected employees to come back at a different time, after hours if they desired.
While I am still happy working part-time, I am so glad I don’t have to deal with this aspect of business anymore.
One size doesn’t fit all.
Thank you for your thoughtful comment. You surely led with empathy and was sensitive to the needs of your team.
That’s what happens under America’s form of capitalism where workers have no protections.
100%. And at least two decades in the making.
In 1960 my father’s employer was acquired by another firm. On payday everyone in the backoffice was told to queue up at the door and as they walked through each was handed their final paycheck and told “goodbye”.
In 2000 or so HR departments began culling candidates using new metrics. One was dinged for “loyalty” as it was felt that longer term employees were slackers and had potential hiring issues. After all, there had to be a negative reason they stayed with a firm for a decade or more.
Hiring and firing practices have been streamlined and automated for decades. HR departments have become very good at this. It may be convenient to assign blame.
I never fired anyone, but I did assist some employees that were not a good fit in finding a job elsewhere.
Loyalty is a two-way street. I read that today, younger employees are more interested in what is called work-life balance. In my business some employees put personal life first, and were clearing their desks at 4:50pm each day and out the door at 5:00. If a project had issues, too bad; let someone else deal with it. A potential hire once told me during the interview process “For that wage I’ll come to work, but if you want some effort you’ll have to pay more”. We didn’t hire them.
I once had a young lad working in my store to help fund his way through university. One evening he showed up for his shift in a full tuxedo — he had his end-of-year university party straight after work. Fair enough, you might think. Except he then flatly refused to do any actual work in case he got the hired suit dirty.
I showed him the door very promptly. 😂
I’m sorta dealing with it now. I haven’t been anybody’s employee for 30 years, just a part-time contractor/consultant, but my lead client suddenly got some bad news and will likely shut down by the end of the week. I’ve just lost about half of my income, but I’ve got some savings, plus Social Security, Medicare and no kids to feed. Nearly 100 people are about to lose 100% of their income, and many of them don’t have a cushion. It won’t be fun looking for a job with decent health insurance benefits in this madhouse of a country right now. I feel sorry for them, much more than myself.
The shock is that it can happen so fast. There was zero indication this was possible when I left for my vacation a couple of weeks ago.
Mike — slightly off-topic here, but I wanted to pick your brain. You once replied to a forum post of mine saying you’d rather keep your low-rate mortgage than pay it off early. Given your possible change in work circumstances, has that view shifted at all, or are you still fully committed to it?
Mark, I’d say more committed than ever. The sudden drop in my cash flow makes me even happier that I have all that money in my accounts instead of stuck in the walls of my house. My pal ChatGPT ran some rough calculations for me last night that indicated I can still live ’till I die on my nest egg without tapping my home equity to pay the bills, and that pleases me greatly.
I should also add that the dropoff in my income was not unanticipated, even if the loss of this particular client is a surprise. I have long expected the gradual deterioration of my outdated business model (along with my outdated lower back) and planned accordingly.
Mike, if nothing else you’ve given me a good laugh! Personal finance really is a case of different strokes for different folks — thanks for indulging my curiosity.
The entire premise that there has been an increase in layoffs is just incorrect. There has been exactly zero increase over the last 25+ years, and the last 5 have been below historical levels.
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/JTSLDL
But, other indicators suggest the adjustment has shifted away from layoffs: Part Time for Economic Reasons (LNS12032194) surged after 2008 and remains elevated in some periods, while Real Median Usual Weekly Earnings (LES1252881600Q) were largely flat for much of the 2000s and 2010s. That combination is consistent with stress showing up more through underemployment and wage pressure than through outright layoffs.
During the time period you illustrated we experienced Globalization, costly wars, the 2008 financial crisis, and Covid pandemic. More than numbers, the effects are evident in the politics of a polarized country like ours. Personal economic experiences played a big factor.
The layoffs chart is useful, but I don’t think it supports the conclusion that nothing changed.
Probably, but has the “HOW” layoffs are done changed. Can we imagine a world where we rethink this whole concept of employees being dispensable? I do not have easy answers, but know we can do better
Just sooooo glad I’m retired and no longer have to deal with this. Companies now a days don’t give damn about their employees. They’re just disposable profit generators. As I tell people when they ask what I do, I tell them I’m retired, and it’s the best job I’ve ever had!
That’s a bit of a misnomer. There is no such thing as companies making a decision to do anything. The difference is the people who make the suggestion and the people who make the decisions often to further their own standing and career. I was part of a lot of those type decisions and many were bad decisions driven by inaccurate or shortsighted assumptions.
If a company needs to downsize to boost earnings it’s failing. If it allows employee count to grown beyond what is needed, it’s failing, but again, not the company, but individuals in charge. A crisis of some kind may occur, but usually it’s gradual mismanagement disguised as success.
Me too, David. Grateful and glad.
I have worked for private sector and public sector, and have had to lay people off in both numerous times. Never pleasant but most people saw it coming. The worst situation is when someone does not see it coming.
Empathy and kindness help but it was never easy.
I’ve downsized thousands, put several separation packages together over the years. To the extent possible we asked for volunteers, but that is not always possible.
You have some good points, but the other side of the coin is that companies are so system dependent, they can’t afford the risk of disgruntled workers sabotaging the companies systems before they leave so the consequence may be the harsh measures you mention.
When we fired someone they were immediately escorted off the property.
I agree that companies in many cases could plan better and avoid over staffing, but not always.
When you did the downsizing, did your separation package also include suicide counseling? This isn’t something you normally hear, but the company I worked for did. They also offered assistance in finding another job. If someone was being fired, that was a different case, but normally they were given several warnings to improve.
Olin – when I was laid off in 1994 the company offered a pretty generous out-package and job search counseling. The counselors were not very experienced with technology placements, so they provided little benefit for the engineers. They were pretty much on their own.
I’ve never heard of suicide counseling as part of a separation package, but it makes sense. In a recent medical appointment the intro questionnaire asked if there were ever thoughts of self-harm or suicide.
Jeff, indeed I think the suicide counseling is very rare. I believe I know what you’re referring to about the questionnaire from the medical office. I see it on my annual Medicare Wellness Visit.
Some companies are not very tactful when having to let go of a group of employees. I recall hearing about a meeting with a group of engineers when it was announced which of those would be let go as they went around the table…right in front of everyone including those not losing their job. A real class act from upper management.
Thank you, Dick. Nothing should stop companies to show their human side and that is something no systems should stop human beings from doing.
I was laid off or let go twice. The first was when the company had literally no money left and couldn’t make payroll. Turns out it was greed. The owner had taken all the cash out of the company when it was making good money. He was a bad businessman and a bad boss.
The second time was when my employer’s CEO was fired and a new CEO was recruited. The new CEO had to do something different, so he chopped up the engineering organization and dropped headcount. There was no compelling reason beyond a demonstration of the ability to make changes. It was not a happy place to work and I was glad to be out of there.
The next job was with a small company that lived hand-to-mouth the entire time I was there. I decided to quit before I was let go. The company lasted another year or so and then dissolved. I had a new job within a month of leaving.
My final employer was based in the US but wholly owned by a French company. From 2008 to 2020, there were no layoffs even when the US mortgage/banking collapse provided a reasonable excuse. It was the best job I ever had. Since I retired, some folks have been placed on “performance improvement contracts” and eventually released, so something has changed, but not dramatically.
Let me share some good news. I was downsized or better term fired in 1994. HR did a poor job, but tried to be nice, after telling me to leave, they offered help in finding a new job, an agency. What happened next was delightful, other employees that found a way to compete with our company founded a small 10 person company. They asked me to join, and I tripled my wage over a few years and never looked back. Sometimes you can make Lemonade out of Lemons.
Jeff – I worked in a French company for the last 6 years before I retired and they treated me better than all my previous employers. I was glad to have retired from this company and people who I cared for and they cared about me
Raghu – I worked for Dassault Systemes Simulia Corp.
I know Dassault well. I worked for Schneider electric
I was the last employee hired in the US in my department back in 2010. We had at least fifty people in the group back then. Only seven of us are still here. Four retired, and the rest were laid off over the years. Two definitely deserved it, the rest were simply victims of outsourcing and cutbacks.
We had no idea who would be next on the chopping block. We talked about the HR sniper waiting to pick us off one by one.
Up until two years ago, they paid severance pay of two weeks per year of service, up to a max of a year’s pay, so at least most of the people let go had something to fall back on while looking for a new job. Now you’d be lucky to get four weeks’ pay.
The company culture is terrible now, especially since McKinsey came in to revamp the org structure.
I happen to work with a great team of people, but we’re all in our late fifties or early sixties and just waiting it out until retirement. I have 409 days to go until we make the last college payment, and I might quit then, or wait until the end of ’27.
When people ask if they should accept a job offer here, I say “Only if it’s your only option. If you do, keep looking and get out asap.”
I recommend that you keep your job for as long as you can, because once you leave you might not be able to find another one in these very uncertain times. It sounds like you are nearing retirement, so it behooves you to build up your savings as much as you can.
Yes, we’ve been saving diligently for the past ten years. Our savings rate is 37% of gross income this year.
According to the Boldin software, if we retire in May 2027: “After running 1,000 simulations, the probability that your savings will last until your goal age of 95 is 99%.”
I also ran the data for a downturn in the market for the first ten years after we retire, and it said “Based on a decade of poor returns your Chance of Success could be 99%.”
I really have no interest in working again once I quit.
Don’t rush to embrace all aspects of the European model. Having run my own business and employed staff for nearly thirty years, I can attest it can be restrictive and frustrating. I can give you examples of staff playing the system by taking six months of ‘sick’ leave and my business having to pay them for the whole sickness period—even when they’re on a foreign vacation—then, when they come back to work, having to approve their statutory vacation leave that has built up during the six months’ sickness absence.
My friend, who also ran his own business, didn’t want to risk expanding because of the costs involved with employment law and the difficulties of letting staff go without big expenses. Essentially, it inhibits innovation and entrepreneurship because of employment legislation heavily tilted towards employees rather than employers trying to create more jobs.
Sad fact is that there are always people out to game the system.
One time I was sent to Texas to explain the severance package to all employees of a company we were closing. 30 minutes before the meeting was to start the President of the company wished me good luck. I couldn’t understand why until he told me he hadn’t told the 100 plus employees they were out of a job, he thought he would leave it to me.
Oh my, and being Texas, I wouldn’t be surprised if half of them were packing firearms!!
Agree, Mark.I worked in a French company and got frustrated with the workforce laws. The thing we can learn from the Europeans is how to manage workforce reductions . There is a balance where you have to take care of employees, due to strong work union even for salaried employees. This evens it
The movie “Up In The Air” about a man whose job is to travel around the country, firing people, came out in 2009.
So the practice started before that…
Yes, but companies were much more emphatic than they are now
Not so sure— my brother built a great career in the 1980s—all the way to VP of a Fortune 50 company—by walking into the corporate offices and announcing “your parking lot is too big!”
At the same time, I worked for state government with a labor union contract that made it impossible to get rid of the most incompetent worker. I don’t have an answer to this— but I’m sure simplistic solutions wont work.
And I agree with Mark Crothers—not seeing a better way in Europe.
Hi Marilyn
I am not against layoffs, but against using it without due empathy and other means to cut costs. You are talking about getting rid of incompetent employees, which I fully support. Do you really think today’s layoffs and how it is done has anything to do with the capability or competence of the workers or employees? No
Honestly, I wouldn’t be as worried about empathy as I would about finding another job,
Companies are part of the society. Showing empathy to one of the prime stakeholders in an organization – employees is not a nice to do. Yes, an employee needs to work on finding another job, but can we let them do that with some sense of dignity and pride.
Meant ” Showing empathy to employee is not just a nice thing to do”. It is a necessity”
Maybe this should be considered a “chicken and egg” problem. Whike companies seem to have little consideration for employees, what about employees? They quit without notice. I guess I’d say the days of loyalty in the workplace are gone — and both employers and employees are to blame.