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Every so often, we get an outbreak of generational warfare here on HumbleDollar, with the site’s generally older readership decrying the financial habits of younger generations, while proclaiming that things were so much better when they were growing up.
I find this rather silly. As I see it, people don’t fundamentally change from one generation to the next. Meanwhile, we’ve seen extraordinary progress in recent decades, but that’s also meant new challenges. Consider eight points.
1. How good is your recollection of what you were like in your 20s and 30s? No doubt there are HumbleDollar readers who always made wise decisions, financially and otherwise. I wasn’t one of them. I can’t recall all of my mistakes, thank goodness. But what I can recall I’d rather not.
2. Disparaging the generation that follows is a long and not particularly admirable tradition. What did our parents’ generation say about us when we were teenagers and in our 20s? I doubt that they were all that impressed.
3. By countless measures, the world is a better place today. The U.S. standard of living continues to climb, even if the rewards haven’t been spread as evenly as many would like. Meanwhile, we’ve seen huge advances in technology and medicine. Were things really better in the “good old days”? They certainly weren’t for many minorities, women and those in ill-health.
4. Because standards of living rise over time, it’s no surprise subsequent generations spend in ways we never would. Today, lots of folks, it seems, subsist on takeout—a practice I’m inclined to condemn, but don’t, because this sort of “extravagance” is what economic progress looks like.
5. We tend to judge our standard of living by looking at those around us, rather than comparing our lot to the way things were 20 or 30 years ago. The upshot: Even though standards of living climb over time, the portion of the population that feels shortchanged tends to remain the same.
6. Don’t assume subsequent generations “have it easy.” Even as standards of living have improved, things have also gotten tougher in some respects. Do you have any idea how competitive it’s become to get into good colleges and to get a good job? I got into Cambridge University by the skin of my teeth. If you saw my middling grades on the entrance exam, you’d know that isn’t false modesty.
Today, I strongly suspect I’d end up elsewhere because I’d be competing against so many talented students who before would never have dreamed of applying to Cambridge—kids from working class backgrounds, minorities, women. For these groups, the world has become a more accepting place, even if barriers still exist. That should be celebrated: In a capitalist economy, the goal is equality of opportunity, which should ultimately benefit all of us.
7. Do you have any sense how unpleasant the work world has become? Employees are monitored closely and evaluated constantly. I’m so grateful to have escaped that sort of overbearing supervision.
To be sure, some of my early bosses behaved in ways that wouldn’t be tolerated today. But the workplace also tended to be a less regimented place. When I arrived at The Wall Street Journal in January 1990, my first editor explained that there was a four-day work cycle. I’d write an article every three days, and then I was allowed an “FU” day before starting on my next piece. Can you imagine a boss saying that today?
8. If there’s something we don’t like about today’s society, who’s responsible? Today’s world was created not by those in their 20s and 30s, but rather those age 40 and up. Who’s to blame for the aspects of today’s society that we don’t like? Perhaps we should be looking in the mirror.
This is a comment about the good ol’ days, but from a different perspective. When I got out of the military in 1972 and started working in an administrative, salaried job, the work day began at 8AM, and ended at 4:30PM. There was no easy way for the boss to contact you outside of this time period to get you to work after hours. There was no email or texting until smart phones and faster internet connections for PCs became commonplace. Okay, I might have a project I needed to work on at home, but it was my choice as to when I did the work, and there was no boss looking at the project until it was finished because there was no way to share. Nowadays, in the US, there is no time when you can escape work. The EU has even passed laws to keep US companies who operate there from texting and emailing employees after hours. In fact, this is, perhaps, why there is such a difference in productivity between the US and Europe.
I wish there was more knowledge about financial and health matters in today’s generation but as Jonathan said we only have ourselves to blame.
Here’s a Greatest Generation complaint for you. My mother, in about 1971, was the mother of 6 with me as the youngest. I was about 10 years old at the time when she said, “The way these kids act today (referring to the baby boomers, hippies, etc.), you’d think they invented sex!” 🙂 It wasn’t until years later that I saw the humor in that, however, at that time, she was serious. It was her way of expressing disgust at the so called sexual revolution going on at the time.
Like anything else, there are areas where things are better, and areas where I think they have declined. Jonathan touched on a number of the positive developments, such as tech, healthcare, and life, in general, for women and minorities. All of which have had enormous impact.
However, some things have moved in a negative direction: The decline of the nuclear family, the failure of the public schools to improve educational outcomes despite huge investments of capital, the (apparent) increase in the obesity rate among young people, and the over-reliance on technology to the deteriment of developing social skills. Technology is a HUGE two-edged sword for younger generations.
P.S. I realize I’m slightly off topic in that all of these don’t address, per se, the financial habits of generations. I hope you’ll indulge me all the same.
Is the nuclear family really such a good thing? It’s a closed environment in which abuse can occur unseen. It also has fewer people to share the work.
I’ve read that social scientists have found that children growing up in a household where both biological parents are present, generally do better in life than those growing up in a single parent household.
Most of us develop our basic moral sense from our parents. Often, children from single parent homes learn basic life lessons from street culture since a single parent is often working and missing from a child’s life.
If abuse can occur in a nuclear family, imagine what must occur in its absence. If a child is not protected by a nuclear family, who has the responsibility to protect and teach that child? Government bureaucrats? Street gangs? What moral lessons will they teach?
I was thinking of multi-generational households, but please provide evidence that a single parent is a worse parent than an abusive parent.
I think we can agree that no parent, married or single, is worse than an abusive parent. I can’t imagine why any adult would abuse a child, so I must assume that such an adult suffers some degree of emotional damage that makes them unable to refrain from such behavior.
On the topic of nuclear families, let me offer these excerpts from Coming Apart by Charles Murray, 2012, page 158:
“…the family structure that produces the best outcomes for children, on average, are two biological parents who remain married…Never-married women produce the worst outcomes.”
“I know of no other set of important findings that are as broadly accepted by social scientists…yet are as resolutely ignored by network news programs, editorial writers for the major newspapers, and politicians of both major political parties.”
Again, I was referring to multi-generational living arrangements, which have been the norm for most of human history. The mother-father-two kids living alone model is a recent phenomenon.
For a more nuanced look at single-parent and cohabiting couple families see this article.
David Brooks had a long piece in the Atlantic on what he called the welcome decline of the nuclear family. It may be behind a pay wall, so I’m sharing this one as well.
A non-abusive single parent is not worse than an abusive parent, single or otherwise. However, children in single-parent families are more likely to experience poor outcomes. Yes, there are exceptions. The Annie E. Casey Foundation is a good source for relevant data.
Brooks’s piece is not without flaws. Two rebuttals:
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/sliding-vs-deciding/202002/the-nuclear-family-was-no-mistake-a-response-to-david-brooks
https://ifstudies.org/blog/number-2-in-2020-yes-david-brooks-the-nuclear-family-is-the-worst-family-form-except-for-all-others
This is unsurprising as research has indicated that educational outcomes are heavily dependent on cultural issues. You can’t spend your way to creating students that are motivated and believe in the process.
I’d say the word, judgmental, is more the issue at hand these days. Judging others, their actions, beliefs, etc and as mentioned herein, the ability to broadcast it instantly to untold thousands certainly fans the flames. That and, we must find someone to blame for things we don’t like.
Back in “the day”, the family and work elders would often readily respond to complaining/whining with some version of:
Get over yourself.
If you don’t like it here, there’s the door and don’t let it hit you in the rear end on your way out.
What are you doing to make it better? Lead, follow or get out of the way.
This isn’t Burger King. You don’t always get it your way.
And sometimes, you had to remove the boot from your backside, readjust your thinking and move on. Sometimes you moved out.
I am so with you Jonathan. I’m not worried about the youth of today. They certainly have different concerns/pressures than I had, but they are handling them as well as I handled my concerns.
Great reminders Jonathan.
I recently listened to Morgan Housel’s book Same As Ever. As I recall, he did not mention judging or complaining that others have it easier among those things that always has been and always will be, but I think it fits. That doesn’t mean it’s a good thing though, and we should try to avoid it.
Meanwhile, I can only wish I needed to reach back as far as my 20s and 30s to find poor decisions.
Greetings from Cambridge. Nice town.
Go “Punting on the Cam” while you have a chance. The history lesson from the pilot is worth it!
If you’re in Cambridge don’t miss Ely. One of the UK’s best cathedrals plus one of Oliver Cromwell’s homes. Also, evensong in King’s College Chapel, and the botanical gardens.
Lucky you to be in Cambridge, England! Be sure to walk through Emmanuel College, admire the wonderful chapel designed by Christopher Wren, and then stroll a little farther to see the duck pond. My three years at Emma and at Cambridge were wonderful.
No. 7, for sure. I knew it was time for me to retire when I heard about “mouse movers” to keep a computer awake, and that companies were enlisting server-based programs to monitor the webpages their employees frequented. I used Wikipedia a lot for work-related stuff, but that could have been interpreted as me looking up info on personal interests. Both of my sons work in IT environments that are likely full of monitoring programs.
I couldn’t agree more about today’s work world. It’s soul crushing or underpaid, and often both.
I try to reserve my judgments for others’ spending choices and habits, as I have no idea of what they value and prioritize in life. That said, I do feel a twinge of judgment for those that spend blindly, only thinking about what they gain by a purchase, and never about what they give up.
I feel that the “Good Old Days “, are overrated. Especially the very old days. Since the USA was formed, we have gained. OSHA, Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid ,and the USDA.
Workman’s Comp and Disability Insurance. Refrigeration and air conditioning. Central heat, indoor plumbing and virtually cost free investing.
More reliable vehicles, dozens of cures for many diseases, vaccines, modern medical tech, and wireless communication.
Microwave ovens, electricity, washing machines and dishwashers and clothes dryers. Air transportation, excavators and nail guns, cordless screwdrivers, cherry pickers and more.
Email, texting, unemployment insurance, the FDA, NASA, DNA testing , etc.
A very old and wise friend once told me “Today is the Good Ole Days”.
Amen!
Well said!!
Older people rarely say, I got to benefit by being born in the shadow of WW2, that there were simply more opportunities, more growth (caused by nearly apocalyptic destruction) than we really want to see again.
Thanks, Jonathan, for sticking up for the younger generations. I’m lucky to have had another opportunity to be a parent since my grandson came to live with me from overseas five years ago, when he was 13. Yesterday, he pressed the “submit” button on his college Common Application (five PA schools on his list). I agree that the process is much more competitive now than it was for us, the costs are higher than inflation accounts for and perhaps the stakes are higher, though I’m not sure about that.
Every generation has its “Challenges” compared to prior and subsequent groups. When we bought our house 43 years ago, we were lucky to get a 13% mortgage taken back by the seller for the “nice young hard working couple” they sold to. I do worry about our millennial kids and our grandkids as the world is a different place with more challenges and complexities than I remember when raising them.
As for the job/ work point, I think they have been tossed a big benefit due to Work from Home accommodations that most employers still allow (at least a few days a week) since Covid. We had to be AT our place of work every day facing those bosses who scrutinized our work and had little or no leadership training (as management usually have today).
I often find myself asking my wife and friends, “how did we ever survive commuting into NYC for 40 years and making it through our careers?”
Thanks for this Jonathan. I definitely agree with #1 – I have lots of things I wish I could back and change about my 20s. I’ve always bristled against painting groups with a broad brush, or pigeon-holing individuals. Never liked it, and I never will. From my experience, all humans struggle with change. This was a theme I had to deal with frequently as a manager.There was a significant change in the demographics and makeup of the workforce that led to new managerial challenges. If we wanted to attract and keep top talent we had to adapt. It wasn’t always the senior employees who struggled with the perceived and real changes – I had to deal with issues between contemporary employees in different family situations. I tried to treat everyone fairly, with an understanding of their unique characteristics and circumstances. My wife had a great approach with our young children when they encountered unique people – she would say they are just different – not wrong, not bad, not weird – just different.
My gripe is about the complaining these days. Interest rates, mortgage rates, inflation, gas prices, buying a home, opportunity, our obsession with billionaires who actually made our lives better in many cases.
I won’t beleaguer it, but look at the 20th century and then compare with the 21st so far. Inflation was much worse at times, gas was unavailable, two world wars, a deadly pandemic, depression, etc
Things sure are different, employers and the people who make decisions think differently today. But compare that with labor practices 100 years ago.
Seems to me the 21st century so far is no worse than the past, different, yes, but not much to complain about, but I doubt I could convince many people of that as they live only in the moment which is understandable.
Dick, do you see the irony that you’re griping about complaining?
And you don’t think people complained a lot in the “good old days”? I know of no way to measure complaining now versus complaining 30 or 40 years ago, but I’m pretty sure the level of whining hasn’t markedly changed because humans haven’t markedly changed.
I have no way to measure either, but i can’t recall the same intensity and perhaps it just the existence of social media that makes it more apparent.
Those complainers in the 20th century would have done well remembering what the 19th was like.
Long retired IT geek here.
I wonder if it seems like the level of whining is greater because everyone has a smart phone that can take videos?
So more whining can be shared on social media.
Perhaps before when people whined – and us old geezers do it too … it’s not just the youngin’s –
it simply wasn’t recorded?
I think your comment about social media is right on. I remember plenty of guys in my early days at GE complaining about their bosses, the CEO, benefits, lousy raises, being passed over for promotion. Their negativity could impact a small group. Most of us figured out pretty quickly what they were about. Today they could post on Facebook, or Glassdoor, or X. The amplification factor is enormous.
I know it isn’t possible for you to do it but I think you might be surprised if you spent a month away from social media and then took stock of how many complaints you heard from folks younger than you during that time.
Jonathan, I agree that the whining is the same, but Quinn makes some good points. Think about the World Wars and all the sacrifices and hardships endured by the public here at home; gas and rubber shortages, ration books, the push to buy savings bonds to finance the war, and etc. Contrast that with the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan where there was literally no noticeable effect on the daily life. (Please note that I am not referring to sacrifices made by those who serve in the armed forces).
I see no reason to doubt that today’s Americans would make the same sacrifices that were made during WWII if they were necessary for us to repel an attack by another country.
I don’t disagree — the two world wars, with the Great Depression wedged in between, involved huge hardship. Still, I can imagine today’s younger adults talking about the widespread fear generated by 9/11 and the Great Recession, and the national disruption caused by the pandemic.
I’m still talking about 911, the GFC and Covid, and well over 40. All incredibly unpleasant events.
Where did all those dope smoking hippies go? Our parents were certain the country was going to hell in a handbasket, yet somehow it survived.
As a union rep and as a tax preparer i have stories of both good and bad in all generations. Well, except for these Gen Alpha kids… Now they really do suck!
Great post Dan. My Dad thought (jokingly) Mick Jagger was the devil. His parents thought it was Sinatra, then Elvis. Now all those counter-culture rock icons are selling their music portfolios for 7 and 8 figures.
Rick, I just dropped 30 bucks for a Sinatra vinyl. Great tunes.
Also signed on to become a fellow tax prep volunteer with AARP. I figured it was about time to do something useful.
Dan, you get today’s prize for my first out-loud chuckle of the day (and I need it!)! I marvel at the icons of my youth (Mick, Sirs Paul and Ringo). Still performing, looking to be in pretty good shape, and bringing joy to the folks who are lucky enough to see them in person. While I haven’t (yet) seen any of these in person, I treasure my memories and photos of the October 2022 concert of Jeff Beck (who died only three months later) and Johnny Depp in Kingston, NY. My grandson learned that sometimes you can meet the stars by hanging out at the stage door after the show. An important life lesson. 😉
“Where did all those dope smoking hippies go?”
They are now the older generation that they railed against, and that the younger generations are railing against now.
…and the circle goes round and round 🫤
“Meet the new boss, same as the old boss”
Don’t worry as I “Won’t get fooled again!”
Great points. Especially the point about those over 40 being more responsible for anything we don’t like in the present. I also think we tend to glamorize and revise our own histories. Forgetting some of our own mistakes and weaknesses. I think the world is actually a harder more complicated place for those under 40. As you say, I’m not sure I would be as successful if I was coming of age in this decade. I really admire the young people I see who are working hard and facing these challenges.