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Dear HumbleDollar Community,
Last week there was a forum post penned by Dick Quinn on shopping carts. This post was an inappropriate and unkind rant/lament that had no place on HumbleDollar. We can all agree that this post should have been better moderated and that the comment thread which turned acrimonious should have been stopped.
Going forward, I kindly ask commentors take a mindful pause before commenting to prevent further igniting an already incendiary post. And I kindly ask those who pen forum posts to think carefully about the personal finance lessons or observations they are sharing. HumbleDollar provides a wealth of information from both its content and its community, so questions are always welcome.
My husband Jonathan often spoke to me about the overall kindness, civility and intelligence of the HumbleDollar community. Please do not prove him wrong.
One thing that bugs me is seeing all of the downvotes for Kathy’s comments, no matter how innocuous they are. There must be at least a couple of readers who downvote every comment of hers they see. If you’re who I’m talking about, maybe HumbleDollar isn’t the right place for you.
Thank you Randy, I appreciate the support. It’s gotten to where I just expect a few down votes and discount them.
Thank you Elaine. Last year, I posted something that Jonathan may not disagree. He politely suggested an idea that I still think he’s right.
There’s many other forums to rant/rave but let’s be civil in Humble Dollar. Do it in Jonathan’s memory.
“Maybe the ranters need to show more self-control.” -Jonathan Clements
Jonathan wrote this in September, the month he died, commenting on another HD thread to halt the fuss and thunder. He was incredibly caring and tolerant. He encouraged expression here across a wide range of viewpoints while working every day to keep politics and incivility at bay.
For HD to survive, it needs each of us to ask ourselves: Would Jonathan have posted this? If the answer is no, perhaps best to stick that post in a drawer.
Self-restraint is necessary but not sufficient for HD’s survival.
I’d like to amplify what BMORE said below: HD really needs a full-time editor, someone who can contribute an interesting new piece each week, can prod other writers to pick up the pen on a timely topic, edit such submissions brilliantly, and moderate threads when they get needlessly warm. Bogdan has a job which is beyond full-time. His help is needed and appreciated, but it’s not enough to keep this site relevant and growing.
On the internet there is no stasis, there’s just growth or decline. I know Jonathan would want the former with all his heart.
I agree that an editor would be valuable, but the need for active moderation is more urgent. As I posted on a similar thread, I was one of the volunteer moderators for a much larger site for over a decade. We checked the site multiple times a day (or warned our fellow moderators if we would be offline). The queue of items waiting for moderation was cleared in a few hours at most. The rant referenced here would have been removed when it first appeared, as not relevant. Obvious AI posts were also removed. Posters who persisted in impolite attacks on other posters had their posting privileges suspended for a period (after considerable offline discussion with the admins).
It would be good if one or more volunteers could be found here – and no, I’m not volunteering.
Two Comments –
(1) I found nothing objectionable about Dick’s post when I read it a week ago, and I found nothing objectionable when I re-read it today. Is it the fact that he referred to some people as “lazy, inconsiderate dolts?” I understand his context, and quite frankly, sometimes I agree with that characterization.
(2) As I re-read this post today, I am amazed by the down votes Dick received for his comments. I can understand the down votes for the post (if you don’t like it, feel free to give it a thumbs down) but I don’t understand the down votes for his comments. Most of his responses to the comments of are, in my opinion, well-reasoned and reasonable. My assumption – the down votes for his comments are simply because people don’t like Dick. That is too bad. Personal vindictiveness is not the purpose of down votes.
If you don’t like Dick Quinn’s posts, feel free to skip them. I don’t read every post. Just move on.
If you disagree with me, feel free to down vote my comment. However, I would much prefer your comment as to WHY you disagree with me,
The post on shopping carts wasn’t relevant to the objectives Johnathan set out for HumbleDollar which he stated in the ‘About’ section, therefore it was not appropriate for this site, as Elaine stated. Johnathan stated specifically in numerous comments that it is a website for personal finance.
Here again are his words from the ‘About’ section.
“OUR GOAL IS TO TELL you everything you need to know about money—all in one place …”
“HUMBLEDOLLAR STRIVES to deliver conflict-free financial advice that helps everyday Americans make smarter money choices.”
People posting rants or grievances about everything & anything not related to personal finance, just turns it into a junk website that no one will want to visit.
Let’s pause and be mindful as Elaine suggested before posting: how does the article relate to personal finance.
Let’s try to keep it a quality site where people can go to be educated on personal finance as it relates to our lives, as Johnathan intended.
Larry, I strongly disagree with your post because I find zero basis for your self-confessed assumption that the downvotes of Dick’s post are “simply because people don’t like Dick.”
On the contrary, I assume — with no evidence to the contrary — that most here downvote as I do, to express dislike for a post or comment rather than the person himself (whom almost none of us have met).
Perhaps you could share the basis for your belief that the downvotes for Dick’s words were an expression of “personal vindictiveness” in light of the general absence (with an exception or two) of personal comments or insults in those replies. Otherwise, I must tell you that I find the generalization distasteful.
I would hope if people want to express dislike or like for a post or comment that they will take a minute to express why. Even one sentence would help.
The arrows alone are meaningless especially given they are cumulative.
Larry, I don’t disagree with your points, and I wouldn’t reply except that I made a comment supporting this post. Also, I have a lot of respect for you, from your writing here on HD.
My comment on this thread is an up vote for civility, in both posting and commenting. It’s so easy to key in a thought we might not venture if we were face-to-face. Friends can disagree and still maintain a friendship, but there’s a line they know shouldn’t be crossed.
I disagree with you for the reasons stated by Elaine. I will kindly leave it at that.
I hesitate to even add to this but I honestly would like to know who people feel the post insulted or was unkind to.
The description of the group I mentioned was over the top for emphasis, but it was some generic made up group. Can such a thing be insulted? It appears so.
But let’s let this go.
This is one of the reasons I stick with the financial lesson articles. Ones that I can apply, am challenged by, and can pass along to others
Well spoken, Elaine.
“OUR GOAL IS TO TELL you everything you need to know about money—all in one place …”
“HUMBLEDOLLAR STRIVES to deliver conflict-free financial advice that helps everyday Americans make smarter money choices.”
The sentences above come from the “About” section.
I think this site works best when content is guided by these ‘guard rails’ established in the original intent of the site.
I think the site wobbles a bit when people try to ‘shoe horn’ topics that may be interesting and make a valid point, but are ultimately tangential to the mission of the site.
Elaine, thank you for asking us to adhere to the ideals we aspire to follow.
I sympathize, but suggest you need an active editor to monitor and add compelling content similar to Jonathon’s for HD to continue.
Thanks, Elaine for that reminder. Let’s all try to remember Jonathan’s lessons.
Elaine,
Thanks for reaching out to the HD Community and for the gentle reminder about what makes HumbleDollar unique and special. I think we all miss Jonathan’s writing and editing talent. I also greatly miss his friendship, kindness, and generousity.
Best,
Ricki
Well said, Ricki.