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Disney or Bust

Richard Quinn

AN ARTICLE PUBLISHED in The Wall Street Journal told the story of Americans in their 30s who are spending heavily and piling on debt as we leave the pandemic behind.

One family with an income of $80,000 in Lincoln, Nebraska—where the cost of living is low, with housing costs 22% below the national average—had $20,000 in credit card debt and $160,000 in student loans.

They used stimulus checks to work down their credit card debt. The couple claims to have saved money during the pandemic, but it’s not clear if that was actual savings or merely saving 20% by buying something on sale. I’m guessing the latter because unplanned spending—on a new water heater and health care expenses—has lately gotten them even deeper into debt.

Taking the family of six to Walt Disney World and other local trips probably had something to do with a doubling of their credit card balance to some $40,000. An online calculator shows that paying the minimum of $635 a month on that credit card will result in $200,000 in interest payments over 30 years.

The wife seems confused as to how this can happen, “a never-ending cycle of playing catch-up,” as she is quoted as saying. Who created this cycle? What will they do when the student loan repayment moratorium is lifted?

I was ready to write something a bit snarky about this couple and other 30-somethings in similar situations, but then I thought it’s really quite sad. When I was in my 30s with four children, the idea of going on vacation to Disney World wasn’t even on the radar. We lived without credit card debt, not because we had lots of cash, but because we abhorred debt—and still do.

In short, we lived well within our means and, back then, it was on my income as an office clerk. How could a family that’s heavily in debt receive government payments, which they use to reduce debt, and then voluntarily double their debt? The real kicker is they don’t seem to understand what they’re doing to themselves.

I wish the article had discussed their retirement savings—or lack thereof.

Some people will see their student debt as part of a national crisis. I see it as making poor choices or failing to leverage the value of their education. Making $80,000 a year from an education that left them $160,000 in debt seems like a poor investment. Perhaps a critique of the cost-benefit of college, or the way that education is put to use after graduation, is in order.

Their vacation took priority over not only debt repayment, but also building an emergency fund. Hence, we can guess where the money for the water heater and medical bills came from. Credit cards. With this pattern of living, the family will never catch up.

I can’t say such financial decision-making is typical, but I doubt it’s unusual, either. Different generations view spending and debt quite differently. Shared life experiences determine attitudes. It seems to me that each generation—especially since the 1960s—creates its own set of excuses. Market crashes, inflation, the pandemic, recessions and job losses are all given as excuses for not saving.

Adverse events have affected all generations. It’s the individual’s response that determines how someone gets through these setbacks—by, say, skipping an expensive vacation. Cutting costs, even on basic expenses, seems to be a forgotten strategy.

No doubt some people will disagree, but the decisions made by this couple—and perhaps many of their generation—seem self-destructive.

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Stephen Douglas
1 year ago

Random quotes from the Humble Dollar…

1. “There are Boomers where I work who have enough money, but refuse to retire to make way for the younger generation.”

2. “However, those of us who do not go deeply into debt benefit from our irresponsible neighbors. Their excess spending fuels the economy and the share prices of the companies we invest in.”

3. “One simple rule: “Live on less than you make.”
Everything else flows forth from this simple rule.”

4. “Credit is what made this country great” (my Dad.)

5.&nbspcomment image

1 & 2 Nicely illustrates the fallacy of composition, that what is true for one person may not be good for the whole. The usual example is one person standing in a stadium to get a better view. If ALL people stand, no one gets a better view. Saving is good? but excess spending fuels the economy.

3. Ignores the life cycle hypothesis that people naturally (and logically?) tend to even out consumption throughout life, by borrowing when younger, for education and raising family; saving in middle age when income is higher, and spending in retirement.

4. Is what my Dad told me when I was a whippersnapper. It sort of combines 1-3, imagine if everyone saved until they had the cash to buy a car. (I think he stole this from someone else, like a lot of his other “wisdom”

5 is me.

John Redfield
1 year ago

HumbleDollar Mantra:
Saving Good,
Spending Bad.

R Quinn
1 year ago
Reply to  John Redfield

As I have said many times, Save first, then spend as you like just don’t have an unpaid credit card balance to start a month. No budget needed.

booch221
1 year ago
Reply to  John Redfield

Debt bad.

R Quinn
1 year ago
Reply to  booch221

Exactly, especially when it comes before saving.

tshort
1 year ago

Sounds like another propoganda hit piece from the WSJ to build antipathy toward college loan forgiveness. Typical.

You can’t really make any generalizations about an entire generation based on one family of six with a lot of debt and their decision to take a trip to Disney World.

Also, comparing your experience with credit card debt versus that of people in their 30s is irrelevant – the first national bank credit cards weren’t even introduced until the late 50s, and didn’t really expand their reach to what we now have as truly national credit cards until the 1970s. So of course you didn’t have any debt back in the day. There wasn’t much to be had unless you ran up your Macy’s charge card, which would’ve been relatively easy to avoid doing.

When I was in my 30s back in the 1990s I had no kids, no house, no family, and no credit card debt. I did have a student loan of several thousand dollars from my graduate degree which I paid off early once I got a “real” job. But other than that, I was spending almost all of what I earned.

I didn’t get really serious about fully funding workplace DC plans until I was in my 40s, which is also when I first started accumulated any significant savings.

I quit working at 58 with enough money to last another 30-40 years. So I wouldn’t judge the habits of today’s 30 year olds based on one example of an underwater family highlighted by a newspaper that is known to have an agenda.

R Quinn
1 year ago
Reply to  tshort

That was not the purpose of the WSJ article as it covered several individuals and as I said such decisions may not be typical. I was 16 in 1959 so I had plenty of time to abuse credit cards if I wanted to. I think overall savings rates, retirement funds accumulation and growing credit card debt pretty much tell their own story, no agenda needed. 40% +- of Americans can’t come up with $400? How did that happen?

booch221
1 year ago
Reply to  tshort

What you wrote:

You can’t really make any generalizations about an entire generation based on one family of six with a lot of debt and their decision to take a trip to Disney World.

What he actually said:

I can’t say such financial decision-making is typical, but I doubt it’s unusual, either.

Last edited 1 year ago by booch221
Randy Starks
1 year ago

Been there done that, credit debt is the worse, and It’s a terrible life lesson. I was in over $200,000 in credit card debt when I got divorced. It’s a long story but SH!T happens. Her attorney suggested we rob my 401k and pay off all the debt, I negotiated a settlement with most of the companies and/or we paid them off in full. Some of them would not negotiate and I didn’t hire one of those blood sucking credit repair companies. They are a scam and you can DIY. And, yes you can rob your 401k (I was putting in the company match in my 401k 9% for years) in a divorce with no penalty with the IRS. Legal eagles are worth it most times, if they are honest.

Learned my lesson and I could not get a credit card for a $300 line of credit for years except for a prepaid card BS. Paid cash for everything, kept putting 9% or more in my 401k until I retired 9 years later, and had built it back up to $460k.

Amazingly, I qualified for a mortgage in 2014, at my credit union at work because I had re-established my credit after seven years. Why seven years? Well, that’s because one of the credit card companies reported the settlements (2) as “charge offs” to the 3 credit bureaus not as settlements. That stays on your record just like a Chapter 13 bankruptcy, unfortunately and you have no say in the credit report notes.

Oh, I have to beat the credit card companies off with a stick now because I have a fluctuating FICO 8 score above 800 to 840 for the last six years, so what goes around comes around in the end.

AnthonyClan
1 year ago

One dynamic that has definately changed is the media environment. Will I was poor growing up in the 70’s, I never felt that I was so. Now folks are swimming in a sea of “keeping up with the Jones (who are likley bankrupt themselves).” Not sure if I were growing up in today’s environment, that I could resist it. Most things are relative between then and now (things were cheaper then but we made less) but some have gone off the scales (housing doubling in price over 10 years, college 4x).

David Baese
1 year ago

Richard,
I agree with you but the “spending my inheritance now” approach is more common than we think. If I was a brilliant behavioral economist I’d research and publish a paper entitled “The impact of anticipated inheritances on current consumption.”

David Baese
1 year ago

Richard – Have you considered the possibility that some, or even many, of these people are spending anticipated inheritances?

booch221
1 year ago
Reply to  David Baese

Don’t count your chickens before they hatch.

R Quinn
1 year ago
Reply to  David Baese

Actually no, but is that good or bad? I’d say it’s a bit foolish. Makes the example even worse IMO.

Purple Rain
1 year ago

I was not born in the US, so please correct me if my observations are incorrect.

The Baby Boomers were born into unparalleled economic prosperity and inherited a manufacturing powerhouse. They benefited from social programs under FDR more than any other generation. They outsourced to China, have a problem with paying taxes, and enjoyed kicking off the ladder from under those behind them (Gen X here). There are Boomers where I work who have enough money, but refuse to retire to make way for the younger generation.

They grew up in an era when you could show up at your local manufacturing unit without a college degree and find a secure job with lifetime benefits. They could afford decent homes that younger folks cannot at their age. They built an economy where college education and health care are nosebleed-level expensive, one where you can no longer walk into a business and expected to be hired at a decent living wage without a college degree. They raised the generation that they claim is profligate and doesn’t save money. They built this.

One-third of Boomers have not saved adequately for retirement, those who have the money hoard real estate, making it inaccessible for everyone else. According to the National Assocn of Realtors, Boomers were the largest share of homebuyers in 2022, accounting for 39% of all home purchases (up from 29% the year before) while millennials bought 28% of houses last year (down from 43% the year before).

They racked up the national debt and leave the bill behind for future generations.

They built this, including the values of consumerism and profligacy that they accuse others of.

Last edited 1 year ago by Purple Rain
Rob Jennings
1 year ago
Reply to  Purple Rain

There is so much wrong with this I dont know where to start.

Tom Murin
1 year ago
Reply to  Purple Rain

One-third of Boomers have not saved adequately for retirement,those who have the money hoard real estate, making it inaccessible for everyone else” I’m having a hard time understanding how you can place blame on those of us who saved. The real estate is “inaccessible” to those who didn’t save?

R Quinn
1 year ago
Reply to  Purple Rain

I don’t doubt the data but the youngest boomers are 59. Seems unlikely they would be big home buyers at that age. Perhaps it’s because of downsizing.

DrLefty
1 year ago
Reply to  R Quinn

When we sold our home in 2019, we assumed that a family with young children would buy the house—just as we had, back in 1998 with two little girls, a dog, and a cat. But the only two offers on the house were from couples in their 80s, both of whom were downsizing and wanted to move to our town to be near kids/grandkids. This really surprised us because at (then) 59, WE were downsizing (from a four-bedroom house with a yard to a three-bedroom condo). But 30-something families with young kids were priced out of buying our former home.

Randy Starks
1 year ago
Reply to  R Quinn

Interesting, I bought my last house when I was 67 because I had $120k down, planned for repayment in less than seven years, and paid it off last year (one-year early). Thus, I got a seven-year adjustable rate mortgage (3.75%). We right-sized down from a two story to a one story roughly the same size, so I would not have to go up and down the stairs in old age. LOL Stay healthy folks!

parkslope
1 year ago

When I went to Disneyland in 1967 an adult general admission ticket cost a whopping $3.00 but I splurged on a 15-attraction ticket that cost $5.50. I drove to LA and stayed in Motel 6s which actually cost $6. However, if I had flown, the average plane ticket in 1967 cost less than 10% as much as it does now. Even after taking inflation into account, it was much less expensive to take memorable vacations when we were young.

https://www.in2013dollars.com/Airline-fares/price-inflation/1967-to-2023?amount=100

gregorit
1 year ago

Not a fan of trying to characterize generations of people or cherry-picking anecdotes to rationalize an opinion. I prefer to focus instead on behaviors and desired outcomes. My depression era parents were objectively terrible with money but they got by. My kids are over-degreed and will never want for money but I’d like to think I’ve instilled in them a desire to leave the world a better place. To each their own.

R Quinn
1 year ago
Reply to  gregorit

I don’t think it’s a matter of cherry picking to make the case. There are plenty of data to support the differences. Several i cited in comments below.

David Petersen
1 year ago

I think one of the changes is the ease of using borrowed money. The younger generations have access to capital in away that our parents and grandparents never had. I’ve had a credit card since the age of 21. I’ve never abused it and I too abhor debt. What if I didn’t? My parents generation couldn’t have gotten into debt this bad if they tried. Not because they were smart about debt but because the lenders were “smart” enough to say No. It’s so EASY to borrow now that the self control that it takes to be smart with money is 100x’s harder.

R Quinn
1 year ago
Reply to  David Petersen

From Yahoo Finance.

Most Americans have some credit card debt. A recent GOBankingRates survey found that 30% of Americans have between $1,001 and $5,000 in credit card debt, 15% have $5,001 or more in credit card debt and about 6% have more than $10,000 in credit card debt. Although 6% may seem like a small amount, that means that based on the survey results, 14 million Americans have over $10,000 of credit card debt.

parkslope
1 year ago
Reply to  R Quinn

According to site you linked to 47% of Americans have some credit card debt. How did you conclude that most Americans have since credit card can’t?
https://www.gobankingrates.com/net-worth/debt/almost-half-of-americans-have-credit-card-debt-survey-finds/

corrupt
1 year ago
Reply to  parkslope

I’m not sure I understand your statement, but if you’re asking about the disparity between “most” and 47%, I would point out that a substantial number of people have between $1 and $1000 of credit card debt, increasing the number of those with credit card debt from 47% to a majority.

Ben Rodriguez
1 year ago

This is the kind of thing that Dave Ramsey preaches about regularly. Telling people they are their own problem and helping them fix it. Ramsey takes a lot of flack (some of it deserved), but this is the problem he primarily tries to solve.

However, those of us who do not go deeply into debt benefit from our irresponsible neighbors. Their excess spending fuels the economy and the share prices of the companies we invest in. Their credit card interest payments get transferred to our reward points/cash back. I doubt any of us here love that that arrangement exists, but it does and we benefit. It’s hard to make people see the light.

Stacey Miller
1 year ago
Reply to  Ben Rodriguez

But then our bank stocks take a hit when these misguided/unlucky/ undisciplined folks declare bankruptcy.
Let’s hope all can keep their balls in the air & keep paying their credit card minimums.

OR

Teach & preach and change behaviors with those in our circles. Save, buy used, live simply, then do whatever you want when you have the means & life experience.

And there is no excuse for not knowing about personal finance, the knowledge is there for free, online and in every library.

R Quinn
1 year ago
Reply to  Ben Rodriguez

Interesting point. I never thought of it that way. I wonder if in the end we give some of that back with various subsidies and credits the non-savers may obtain?

Ben Rodriguez
1 year ago
Reply to  R Quinn

Excellent point/question. They subsidize us and we subsidize them right back. What a country!

Jonathan Clements
Admin
1 year ago
Reply to  Ben Rodriguez

Your comment reminded me of an article I wrote five years ago:

https://humbledollar.com/2018/02/subsidize-me/

Kevin Madden
1 year ago

My how things have changed. That article only garnered one comment!

Jonathan Clements
Admin
1 year ago
Reply to  Kevin Madden

A few years back, we changed the commenting system — and that, alas, necessitated losing all existing comments.

Ben Rodriguez
1 year ago

Ha! This reminds of the “Simpsons did it!” meme. At some point eventually there will be a HumbleDollar article on everything!

stelea99
1 year ago

Studies of deferred gratification in young children in which some, who at a younger age, are able to wait for a larger treat instead of immediately eating a smaller treat suggest that there is a genetic component to this behavior. Children who are able to do this at a younger age are generally more successful in life. Some never learn. Lots of examples at Bogleheads about couples where one is a saver and one a spender. Character seems to be fixed at a relatively young age and doesn’t change much thereafter. Despite having large incomes some folks spend it all and are in debt.

Unless a spender understands his/her/their own character and money tendencies, their situation is unlikely to change.

Ormode
1 year ago

There is a substantial number of people in their 30s who have large financial assets. They’re saving 25-30% of their income, and the money is starting to pile up. If you hang out on financial sites, you’ll know that these people are out there.

Stacey Miller
1 year ago
Reply to  Ormode

My kids are probably getting tired of my Humble Dollar and Mr Money Mustache links, but I’ll preach until my last breath 🙂

Stacey Miller
1 year ago
Reply to  Ormode

Ormode, our oldest isn’t yet 30, but fits that description.

I have 3 sons, same parents, same upbringing:

The oldest, born in 1995, has always been a saver. Frugal, enjoys simple living, will drive his Subaru into the ground. Employment prospects should continue to be solid, but he does not have a business degree, so I hope he considers taking some classes to augment his degrees.

Middle, the epitome of work hard, play harder. Loves his new life in Cincy and keeps all the eating and drinking establishments thriving. Thank goodness for his discipline to his health, as he has a male model’s body.
Regular savings leaves much to be desired, but socializing apparently has an effect, who knew?! To his credit, his 401k savings is healthy & he’s on the cusp of earning his MBA, so that should translate into higher earnings at some point.

My millennium baby is a New Yorker now, working like crazy and keeping all Uber Eats establishments hopping. “No time to cook” he claims. Despite that, he is practical, & especially loves a deal at a used bookstore, since reading provides great pleasure. Decent savings, and has an okay 401k balance. Earnings potential is very high for his field. He’ll need it for NYC.

So which fella will have the happiest, most fulfilling life? To be continued…

Last edited 1 year ago by Stacey Miller
R Quinn
1 year ago
Reply to  Ormode

Not sure what we mean by substantial, but the average 35-year-old in the U.S. has saved $13,000. However, this amount could be considered skewed by the few who save well over that amount. In reality, the median savings for those between 35-44 is $4,710. https://www.zippia.com/advice/american-savings-statistics/

Few people come close to the recommended 20% savings rate while surveys say nearly 50% can’t come up with $400.

Seems there is a disconnect between what a few examples show and reality.

M Plate
1 year ago

 they don’t seem to understand what they’re doing to themselves.”

That has always driven me crazy. People failing to realize that their actions created much of the situation they are in. Too often I hear that it is the system, or the landlord, or their employer that is to blame. They’re blaming the same system that delivered prosperity to me.

mjflack
1 year ago

Richard, the part of your article about people who practice bad money management skills was interesting, though not necessarily newsworthy. It became less interesting when you made it a generational thing. People have been mismanaging money, well . . . since there was money. It is not a malady that only effects the generations that came after your generation. The link you provided to an ad by Spero Financial is quite underwhelming (and the dates don’t even make sense).

Every generation thinks the next generation is on the road to perdition – I think it’s actually a requirement of getting older. I have a very strong feeling there was man who came back from the Second World War, with three years back pay, who pissed it away over a weekend on things far worse than taking his family to Disney World and then spent the rest of his life trying to play catch up.

DrLefty
1 year ago
Reply to  mjflack

My own father was awful with money and ended up filing bankruptcy. He had run up all kinds of debt behind my mother’s back; they were from a generation where the man usually handled the money. He even borrowed money from my mother’s mother, again without telling my mom. My grandmother explained that she’d take it out of my mother’s inheritance. My mom considered all of this such a betrayal that she ended the marriage soon thereafter.

To someone’s point in a comment above, part of what was going on with my dad is that he was anticipating a sizable inheritance. My grandfather was wealthy and my dad was his only child. But then my grandfather died and left his estate to his wife (my dad’s stepmother), with any balance in trust for my dad. As it turned out, my dad died before his stepmother did, and he never saw a dime of his father’s money.

My sister and I were both horrified by this and have been much better with our money. So I agree that mishandling money is not confined to a particular generational demographic.

Stacey Miller
1 year ago
Reply to  DrLefty

My childhood was replete with the blessings of a typical middle-class 1960s childhood & many heart-warming memories, but witnessing my parents’ bickering about money was not one of them. In a true Psych 101 fashion, it made me who I am today with how I treat money, people, goods, etc. So DrLefty, I can relate.

It especially made me vow to never have my children have that same awful memory.

R Quinn
1 year ago
Reply to  mjflack

Of course there are always exceptions with this or that person in a different generation, but in the aggregate there are big differences among generations and how they view and use money. Even my own children view money and spending differently than I do or would have at their age.

The size of houses has increased along with the cost, use of credit and accumulation of stuff. Find a house built fifty years ago with walk-in closets.

According to the Federal Reserve, in 1970, just over one-fifth of all families owed a balance on a credit card after making their most recent card payment. By 1998, the fraction was just over two-fifths. 

Sure, there are prudent and frugal spenders in their 30s and spendthrifts in their 80s, but overall the generations are different.

mjflack
1 year ago
Reply to  R Quinn

Richard, according to the federal reserve only 16% of the population had a bank credit card in 1970. Due to my youth, memories of the 70s are quite vague, but I do clearly remember that a credit card wasn’t very useful as they could not be used at a wide variety of places, like supermarkets, fast food restaurants, utilities, health care premiums and bars.

If consumers in 1970 had the same access to credit cards as we have today, I have a suspicion that they would have maintained a balance.

I just looked at a chart by the Fed that indicates the amount of debt held by households from 1980 to 2022 remains unchanged:

https://www.federalreserve.gov/releases/housedebt/default.htm

if you have data that indicates that prior generations were spendthrifts, please do share.

tshort
1 year ago
Reply to  mjflack

Exactly.

George Counihan
1 year ago
Reply to  R Quinn

Totally agree with the “accumulation of stuff” … I’m one who often uses the “eye test” over statistical analysis … I cannot believe the number of these storage rental units that pop up around every corner … and I strongly believe they are full of people’s “stuff”

R Quinn
1 year ago

I agree and as I drive around it seems more of those facilities are popping up.m

John Goodell
1 year ago
Reply to  mjflack

Agreed.

I’ll add that I work with hs students who are laser focused on not taking on college debt, so they take dual enrollment classes at the local community college to get college credit for a shorter college runway. It’s very common here in Texas and many other states, but it wasn’t when my cohort was going through. I’m glad that the next generation has learned from our mistaken belief that you can pile on educational debt and always climb out from under it.

Last edited 1 year ago by John Goodell
R Quinn
1 year ago
Reply to  John Goodell

Good to hear that example, but is it typical?

John Goodell
1 year ago
Reply to  R Quinn

I don’t know. I only have a sample size of one school unfortunately, but it was heartening to see.

Nate Allen
1 year ago

One simple rule: “Live on less than you make.”

Everything else flows forth from this simple rule.

The Drake
1 year ago
Reply to  Nate Allen

It’s too bad they don’t teach this in High School.

tshort
1 year ago
Reply to  The Drake

…or at home…

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