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I’m in the process of completing my retirement paperwork. For context, I’m retiring on the same day from two systems—the University of California (where I work now) and CalPERS (which administers the pension fund for the university system I previously worked for). My husband, who worked for a state agency, retired from CalPERS in 2016 and has been drawing his pension as well as using his retiree health benefits for both of us. We elected pensions with full survivor continuance for all three.
So here’s what’s weird. I got a message from the UC retirement system saying that the marriage certificate I uploaded as support for him being my survivor won’t serve. We were married in a church in 1983 and have a certificate signed by the officiant that we’ve always used as official documentation. The analyst who messaged me says the certificate is “ceremonial” and doesn’t show that it was filed with a county clerk. I had three options to resolve this, including the easiest one, which was to upload a previous 1040 that showed we are married filing jointly with both of our signatures.
CalPERS has never said a word about the marriage certificate, not when we separately filed for our pensions, and not when he had to prove I was eligible for health coverage. I keep a scanned copy of the marriage certificate handy for when they ask for it every few years (to reconfirm the spousal coverage). CalPERS has been much easier to deal with in general than the UC counterpart, which leads me to think they’re more competent with more modern processes. It’s possible that this UC analyst was wrong or overthinking things.
The immediate problem is resolved by the 1040, but now I’m wondering if I should follow up with the county clerk where we got our marriage license, which happens to be a different county from where the ceremony was performed. It might make sense to have an “official”certificate in case this problem ever happens again. And it makes me wonder—did the “ceremonial” certificate ever get properly filed, and if not, are we really married? (I’m mostly kidding about the last question, but the whole thing made me wonder.) Weird.
So who is Dana Ferris anyway?
As someone who has lived internationally, I can promise you that other countries are not interested in ceremonial certificates, only the legal, properly authenticated, government documents :-). Some of our US procedures are a bit quirky, perhaps due to our “federal” form of government.
Interesting point!
Bureaucracy is a pain. Years ago, I was the plan administrator for remains of a multinational conglomerate and a call came in from Switzerland. The caller explained her retired husband had died and the US pension office denied the claim. When I investigated, the response was she did not send a copy of his marriage certificate or death certificate. They don’t have such a things in Switzerland, so she sent what she had, a page from the family bible.
Ordering a certified copy of your marriage certificate from the county in which you were married is really simple in California – you can usually do it online – and it doesn’t cost much. We were married in a cheap wedding chapel in South Lake Tahoe, El Dorado County, in 1980 for $20. We had a copy of our “marriage certificate” but it was a cheap looking black-and-white document that didn’t look official by today’s standards, so we were never 100% certain it was real. The new certified copy we ordered last year is in color and looks like an official, modern document.
Thanks!
I wonder how many people I have married (as a minister, only one wife) over the years have the same problem and don’t know it!
Exact same thing happened to my wife and me when we went to our local VA DMV office to get a REAL ID several years ago. The certificate we had saved as our marriage license for over 50 years was just that – a ceremonial certificate signed by our minister. Fortunately for us, the DMV office was able to immediately retrieve a digital copy of our actual marriage license.
Another side note was that we had never noticed the ceremonial certificate had my wife “marrying my father” as it was missing the crucial “Jr.” that follows my name. Had a few laughs on the way back home.
Ooops! 😂
In late 1969 I returned from Viet Nam on leave and got myself engaged with a marriage date 6 months in the future. After returning to complete my tour, I learned we needed to complete a marriage application. Not easy as I was a few miles away.
My father, same name as I, went to the county office with my future bride and completed and signed the form. She reported that the clerk and all in the office gave them some seriously strange looks as she was 19 and he was in his late fifties.
Six months later I returned, and the wedding went off without a hitch. Fifty five years later still together.
BUT ARE WE REALLY MARRIED?
LOL, I think that’s a more complicated question than mine! Your dad signed the paperwork, but you took the vows, so…
It’s quite likely that what your officiant handed you is a marriage license, once filled out, you’re supposed to return it to the state recording office that turns the license into a certificate (when they record it)
I’m pretty sure that’s what we had to do in NY.
This sounds familar. I think after the ceremony witnesses had to sign a form which was then filed in the city where we were married.
You know, now that you say that, I have a vague feeling that we did that. It’s been almost 42 years, so…a long time ago. But I never got something “official” enough, I guess. As I said, it’s never been a problem until this week.
you may want the certified copy in case either of you are eligible for spousal benefits for Social Security in addition to your pensions. We had to have this. Chris
Good point, thanks.
As far as I know from my own situation, it is not the pension provider that demands official marriage license from potential retirees, but it is the insurance companies that need documents for spouse’s annuity policy and healthcare coverage. Those who elect full survivor continuance, part of the pension payout is withheld to purchase the annuity for the survivor. Spousal healthcare insurance policy also costs serious money to CalPERS (about $20K a year in Northern California). Some providers are known to contract out the marriage verification process to a third-party company, who searches and tracks official county records of the retiree’s and spouse’s residences and marriage location for evidence of marriage and/or divorce. Others, especially those who do not pay for spousal healthcare insurance, probably do the one-time verification in-house to save money.
That would explain why we’ve had no problems with CalPERS but hit this weird glitch with UC. I’m also not getting retiree healthcare coverage for either myself or my spouse from UC. I’m guessing CalPERS does its own due diligence with verification. As I said, I’ve used the marriage certificate several times with CalPERS and it’s always worked out fine.
Interesting information, thanks!
I think I would want to get this sorted out. Sooner the better.
Raises the question of whether the IRS ever checks….
Our taxes went up when we married because we were married. Maybe we shouldn’t have told the IRS…
One files a 1040, “under penalties of perjury”. Not worth the downside if an audit letter also requests a copy of a marriage license or an explanation otherwise.
Yes, I will. I’m glad there was an expeditious workaround with the 1040 so that my retirement application can move forward because who knows how long it will take with the county.
Follow up. The 1040 is not proof of anything other than the status you claimed when filing taxes. Seems like the 1040 is less than ceremonial. 😎
Right? The whole thing is weird.
I think you should obtain an “official” county clerk document. Not for today, but for some time in the (hopefully long-off) future, when you or your husband or executor or trustee might need to jump through hoops to address will or trust questions.
Agreed, I think I will!
Not to worry…..https://www.drfamilylaw.com/blog/legal-rights-of-unmarried-couples-in-california/
The first three paragraphs answer your question…..
Thanks! I’m still going to follow up with the county clerk, but at least if I get hit by a bus on my way to teach class today, we’re OK…