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To Roth Convert or Not

I’ve been doing a lot of reading on Roth conversions lately, and I’m seriously considering pulling the trigger on one this year. But before I make any moves, I wanted to get some feedback from those of you who have been through the process.

A little background: I’m in my mid-50s, still working, and in a relatively high tax bracket. I have a mix of retirement accounts – mostly in a traditional IRA and a 401(k). I also have some cash on hand to cover the tax hit if I go through with the conversion. My thinking is that tax rates could go up in the future, and I like the idea of locking in my tax bill now instead of worrying about it in retirement.

I’m looking for a financial advisor to help with this. I found one near me that people praised on reddit. They seem to cover mega backdoor roth conversions but I wanted to get some other points of reference first. I’ve also read this article on Roth conversions but I had some additional questions I’ve been mulling over:

  1. Tax Implications: I know that converting will bump up my taxable income for the year, which could push me into a higher bracket. Has anyone found a sweet spot for how much to convert each year to minimize the impact?
  2. Medicare IRMAA Surcharges: I’ve read that a higher taxable income could trigger higher Medicare premiums later. Has anyone run into this issue?
  3. Breaking Even on Taxes: If I pay taxes upfront, I need to make sure my Roth account has enough time to grow tax-free to justify the conversion. Is there a general rule of thumb for how long it takes to break even?
  4. Market Timing: Does it make sense to do a conversion during a market downturn? I feel like paying taxes on a lower balance could be beneficial if the market rebounds later.
  5. State Taxes: I live in California so I’m wondering if I should factor that into my decision-making.

I’d love to hear from folks who’ve done a Roth conversion – either all at once or in stages over time. Was it worth it in hindsight? Anything you wish you had done differently?

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G W
1 year ago

When converting, IRMAA limits are certainly one thing to consider when deciding how much to convert within a given tax year. I may have missed it here and elsewhere, but I don’t recall anyone mentioning the potential for the 3.8% NIIT kicking in at higher MAGI levels, $250,000 if MFJ for example. Am I incorrect that the NIIT would apply here should your conversions cause your total income hits the cliff?

Last edited 1 year ago by G W
William Perry
1 year ago
Reply to  G W

My understanding is income from qualified plan distributions, including Roth conversions from a traditional IRA (which are taxed like plan distributions) are not subject to the NIIT. However, conversion income does count as part of your overall taxable income in determining if you are above the NIIT threshold ($250K MFJ, $200K single, $125K MFS). Also note that under current law the NIIT threshold amounts are not adjusted for inflation. So a Roth conversion can result in you being subject to the NIIT if you have other income of the type subject to NIIT (interest, dividends, etc.) and your Roth conversion pushes your AGI above the threshold amount for your filing status, but the actual Roth conversion income is not subject to the NIIT.

See Part III of IRS form 8960 and the related instructions for more detail.

I hope this helps.
Best, Bill

Last edited 1 year ago by William Perry
G W
1 year ago
Reply to  William Perry

Thank you, Bill and Michael, for your responses. Indeed, the either/or/and scenario of the NIIT threshold for total income and realized investment earnings makes this interesting. It’s somewhat like watching out for the IRMAA limits two years out. We can estimate what they might be but as you mention, Michael, best to stay a few feet back from the edge even using this years current limits as a “worst case” scenario. Have a great day!

Last edited 1 year ago by G W
Michael1
1 year ago
Reply to  William Perry

My earlier quick confirmation was all I had time for. I should have just waited for Bill to give this thorough answer.

Here’s an additional thought. Unless you’re really confident in what your total MAGI is going to be, an alternative is to target just under $230k, the 2024 income limit to be able to contribute to a Roth (married filing jointly). This way, if you’re a bit off and end up with higher MAGI than expected, you haven’t impacted NIIT. If you’re correct and see after completing your return that you stayed under $230k, you can still make a Roth contribution(s), assuming you had earned income.