FREE NEWSLETTER
Go to main Forum page »
Here’s another car-themed Forum post. Last June I wrote a Humble Dollar article about vehicle ownership and longevity. I ended that article with a description of the most recent major repair required for my 2011 Subaru Forester when the clutch assembly failed and required replacement. Those of you wishing to revisit that article can view it here.
I mentioned at the end of that article it might be time to search for another Subaru. At the end of 2024 I read about the introduction of a Subaru Forester option in the new model year – a hybrid. I dropped by my closest dealership to test drive a non-hybrid Forester with the features I wanted, explained I wanted a hybrid and they agreed to maintain contact. I wanted the most up-to-date safety features.
In March the salesperson texted with tentative hybrid deliveries and MSRP information. I told them that I would not purchase a vehicle if it was subject to tariffs. In April they texted with information about available colors, features, and availability. Two weeks ago, I bought one.
The biggest surprise of the whole negotiation was that they took my old Subaru in trade for a value I considered acceptable. When I thought about cleaning/detailing it for sale, posting on sale sites, negotiating, simultaneous insurance for two vehicles, purchasing duplicate license tags, and other factors, their offer seemed reasonable. Then we found that the trade-in value reduced the sale price of the new Subaru, which in turn reduced the NC sales tax charged on the transaction. It was worthwhile to accept their offer.
I’m still reading about and experiencing new features. Some things are on by default, while others need to be turned on/off by the driver. I’m still enjoying the new-car smell. I’ve only reached for the nonexistent manual stick shift a couple of times.
This may be my last vehicle. I turn 72 soon. In 2024 I drove less than 7,000 miles in the Forester, and that’s with trips to the mountains, beach, and DC. When I sold the old car in May 2025, I’d added less than 3,000 miles since January 1st. For the prior three years I averaged around 9,000 miles per year. So even if I took Spock’s advice to “live long and prosper” I won’t accumulate a lot of mileage even if I continue to drive well into my 80’s. I’ll note that my Dad was still driving at 91, but he shouldn’t have done so. I’ve promised my wife I won’t be as stubborn as my Dad when the time comes to give up the keys.
Gee, my 2009 Forester has around 54000 miles. At 79, and buying maybe 10G of gas a month, it seems likely to be my last car. The mileage for the 10G isn’t material.
I’ll offer a contrarian view. When I turned 80 in 2023, I bought a new Subaru Outback – the first new vehicle that I’ve purchased since buying a new Dodge diesel pickup in 1998. All my life I’ve worked on, repaired and maintained my vehicles with the idea that I’ll run them til the wheels fall off.
But, after driving the new Subaru for a couple of years all that has changed. What I’m driving now is not a Car, but a computer with wheels attached, it’s my Computer-Mobile.
I can no longer work on the thing. The vehicle functions solely through some form of obscure computer algorithms, touch screens, that include alarms, beeps and driver controls of all kinds. This is all coupled a with less than robust mechanical drive train that is mated to the computer. I’ll suggest that, at best, it’s a troubled marriage.
So, I have no confidence that this Computer-Mobile will hold up any better than the dozens of laptops, desktops and mobile phone computers I’ve purchased over the last couple of decades.
Thus, my strategy now is to own my Subaru Computer-Mobile until the 3 year bumper-to-bumper factory warranty is about to expire and then sell the old one and buy another new one, just like I did with all my other computers.
Yup, that’s likely not a least cost approach. But, now that I’m into my 80’s my vehicle ownership attitude has changed completely. I’m not about to take on the repair and maintenance obligations of this computer, I want the manufacturer to retain that problem.
BTW: Having said all that – I actually kind of like our Subaru Outback and will likely buy another one to use for about 2 1/2 years.
+1
65 now, bought what I thought would be my last car, Ford Maverick hybrid. I love it.. but it is a computer appliance with an engine, I can’t work on it. This has been troubling my sleep, slightly.
My old car, 2004 Ford Sport Trac, was something I had confidence that I could repair most anything up to a transmission rebuild. This new truck ?
I have to have faith that Ford has made reliable hybrids (C-Max) for years now, and hope..
Last fall we bought what might be our last vehicle a Toyota Crown Signia hybrid. It gets just a hair shy of 40 MPG. Toyota manufactured their first hybrid engine in 1997, so almost three decades ago. I’m guessing they’ve figured them out and have the most reliable hybrid vehicles.
American vehicle manufacturers were slow to the party, so I’m a little leery of purchasing a hybrid from one of them.
Ford licenses its hybrid tech from Toyota.. this is one of the things I researched before getting the Maverick 😉
Is that 40 mph regular driving around or highway? Just curious.
My car is four cylinder with turbocharger and I get 44 mpg on highway driving and around 31-32 normal driving.
Actually, I was surprised with those numbers, especially highway.
What kind of car do you have? Sorry if I missed it elsewhere.
Definitely highway, and probably “around town”. I put around town in quotes as we live in the boonies where our “downtown” is a local convenience store with a small take out kitchen and gas pump, an elementary school (we have contracts with other towns for high school), town office, police and fire station, and library. No stores, nor traffic lights.
Hybrids in general are less efficient on highways if they’re not bumper to bumper. Around here that only occurs if there is an accident. They’re most efficient in cities with stop and go traffic and low speeds.
Doug – thanks for reading and commenting. Sorry you’re losing sleep over your decision. There are still plenty of things to work on, such as oil/filter, air filter, cabin air filter, brakes, etc. Another suggestion: purchase an engine code scanner to check status if something seems amiss. This might give you confidence when talking to your local Ford dealer about repairs.
MTBob – thanks for reading and commenting. I get it. If I were you, when starting the search in 2026, I might consider a lease for a three-year term.
I usually buy certified pre-owned cars and keep them for at least ten years. I am not ready for a plug in hybrid or fully electric care yet due to the lack of charging stations where I live in Northeast Ohio, like others on this thread. I have purchased Toyota for the last 20 years due to issues with American cars that I owned.There is a master Toyota car technician that I subscribe to on YouTube thatI get a lot of great information from regarding Toyota/Lexus/hybrids https://www.youtube.com/redirect?event=channel_description&redir_token=QUFFLUhqa0x4Y3RjeWJhWW5UdTc2U0x5b25mTlNQYW9sZ3xBQ3Jtc0tsdG5SeFNYdV9fcDEtem5MaDAyTXJYcTAtS3JZUXlreTBOQ2FqbGFibXJUdVpaYkx2ejlEeDRVZVN5U0YxR0lLWEttQ2phN19WOFhGMnY4b1NXVmdTN3hmSnBpTDVud1l4ZU9MeUFVa0NhcExKNGo2Zw&q=www.tccnautomotive.com
Congrats Mike on making a decision to purchase your dream car. Not only have you sacrificed your entire life; you’ve now got both the cash and courage to do what most of us never will. Sounds to me like a lot of fun. Enjoy and be safe.
I’ve been questioned regarding my plan which has us purchasing cars into our nineties. I was asked, assuming you’re still around at 90+ do you think you’ll still be driving? To which I responded, according to Tesla (and others) the car will do the driving for me.
Paul – thanks for reading and commenting. Based on my Dad’s genes, I may make it into my 90’s, but nothing is guaranteed. 🙂 I like the comment from moonwalkerdaughter, below. She seems convinced that self-driving cares will be controlling all our transportation within 10 years. I hope she’s right!
Well, in my situation, for 50 years I bought used cars and learned how to fix them. One was a15 year old car bought for $100 and did ground up restorations and driving it for 10 years sold it for about $6,000.
In late middle age and recently buying the 3 year old off lease lower mileage cars and driving those 10 years or more. I still have a 2006 sedan in perfect running order and appearance that I have personally maintained and repaired.
I worked as a professional not in the trades, sometimes having to explain grease stained hands or cuts in the office.
Last fall, I shocked everyone I know, I dipped into my retirement funds and bought a brand new Porsche 911 Carrera S Cabriolet with virtually every option. Was almost the price of a house. My first new car.
With sacrifice there should be reward!
No regrets, an unbelievably fun car. Hopefully they will bury me in it.
Good on you! I used to tell my kids that when they became millionaires I wanted an arrest-me-ret 911 turbo convertible with a whale tail and a roll bar. Later I told them to forget it. The older I get, the less I like getting down into low-slung sports cars.
Hi Jeff, thanks for your thoughts on vehicle ownership. My wife and I are 63 (newly retired) and probably have a few new cars left in us. We have one car now, but thinking about buying another car. I have owned American cars for many years into my forty’s. But after dealing with engine failure (88 Grand Am, Dodge Caravan which actually just fell apart), I bought Toyota, but now I have Honda’s – CRV and Civic. I believe the Japanese make the best cars, hands down IMHO.
The second question I have is since we moved to NC from NY, you mentioned that the trade in value of your old car decreased the amount you paid in state taxes. Can you tell me what the tax rate is for the new vehicle? The NC property tax is 1/4 of what I was paying in NY, however, NC hits you with car ownership costs that are much higher than NY. Of course, we are still way ahead when it comes to state taxes. Many thanks.
Scott – thanks for reading and commenting. The NC vehicle sales tax rate is 3% and applies to both new and used cars.
I don’t think it will be your last vehicle. I believe self-driving cars will become more mainstream in the next decade and wow that will be awesome for seniors. We can maintain a higher level of independence in life. AI is going to change all levels of devices and machines, especially cars. This will be a boon for safe driving and that is something Seniors should adopt.
That’s assuming we as a nation can actually afford to be as reliant on cars going forward as we are today. We already can’t afford to maintain all the infrastructure we have, and I’ve noticed new cars are pretty expensive too these days. Consider me skeptic of the self-driving car gas, since the transportation problem is really about cars being very inefficient ways to transport large amounts of people in small areas.
I spent decades driving from the Philadelphia suburbs to northern VA. I often wished for a self-driving car to better utilize those 6-7 hours a week. Plus driving 95 around DC can be a nightmare. Some of my colleagues took the train. I did a few times but it still required renting a car in DC and a 45 minute drive to our offices. It also locked you into the train schedule.
Rick, I’ve driven in DC, Detroit, Chicago, LA, Boston, Jersey City….. I just laugh when my fellow Toledoens complain about traffic around here; they have no idea what commuters in the big metro areas deal with every day. Kudos to people like you that drive it every day and maintain sanity and a good outlook on life.
We used to joke that driving 95 and the beltway around DC was “full-contact driving”.
Moonwalker – I love your vision of future transportation. I hope you are right. That could make it worth another future purchase!
This article brought a smile. When we launched into full-time travel when I retired 5 years ago, we had a leased Subaru Cross-trek we absolutely loved. But with our pared-down belongings in storage, we didn’t want to pay storage fees for it as we traveled. It was a crazy market for used cars and we actually netted $5000 on its sale (we got the check while we were in Croatia!).
When we returned to the States, we needed a car so leased another Cross-trek. We drove it for two years between travels but the storage fees ate at me. So we let the lease go, losing about $2k. Not bad for driving it for 2 years.
The late husband of a 92 years old friend (who had been a pilot for Air Force One during the Eisenhower administration!) had bought a bells and whistles Camry for her before he died in 2012. Moonroof, rear view camera, the works. It had 49,000 miles on it. She decided to sell it to us for $13,000. We’re in Portugal now and yes, it is in storage. And, at 72 and 77 years old I can safely say it will be our last car.
We also travel full time and store our 2008 Lexus we’ve owned since 2011. We started our travels in a hot used car market too, but still stored it. We had it out recently for a longer stay in the US than we had anticipated (three whole months) and it was good to have.
https://humbledollar.com/2023/11/taking-back-the-wheel/
Holliday, I would to hear more about your travels
Thanks! I’m rarely accused of generating smiles! Safe travels to you.
We just bought a new Subaru Crosstrek Limited to replace my wife’s 2015 Ford Explorer. I have always bought used cars and with the help of a buddy who has a backyard garage drove them into the 250-300K mileage range. This particular Explorer was problematic and experienced two issues that ruined our excellent used vehicle record – engine timing phasers and electrical power steering that my friend couldn’t tackle because it required computer systems that he didn’t have access to and which were pretty big problems. We paid handsomely to have the local dealership fix the phasers – I did my typical analysis and determined that at the time there was too much utility left not to make the repair, but then a year later the power steering system went out and I stubbornly fixed that too. She drove it for another year but I felt like something else wasn’t quite right so it was time to cut bait.
We looked at all the various options and having decided to switch to Japanese, drove Toyotas, Hondas , and Subarus – a couple of our neighbors are very into Subaru and I liked how they drove best – we get pretty rough winters in Northeast Ohio and my in-laws live outside of Erie, Pennsylvania, so winter driving is definitely a consideration and the AWD Subaru seemed like the best choice.
Used cars, especially what we were looking for, didn’t offer any meaningful discount, so for just a few thousand more I bought new. First time for everything, I guess! So now my wife has a shiny new Subaru and I have a vehicle that I get to manage all of the maintenance and care from ground zero so I think we are both pretty happy with the choice.
Kevin, regarding your decision to switch to Japanese. Not buying an American car leaves me with a bad taste. BUT my wife wanted a sub-compact SUV, there are only 2 built in the USA, Toyota Cross and Subaru Crosstrek.. We also chose the Crosstrek Ltd. What are you gonna do?
Dan, If you look at vehicles currently available new in the US, in my humble opinion, the US-based automobile designers and manufacturers have given up the high ground to the Japanese (and in some cases the German and Korean) designers and manufacturers for reliability and robustness.
That said, if you selected the currently available worst designed and built vehicle anywhere – – – it is still more reliable and robust than any manufactured in the 70’s and 80’s.
Jeff,
It’s just that American made cars are in my DNA. My dad, most of my uncles, and most of my friends’ parents worked in the factories building cars, or making the glass or other components that went into cars.
Your comment about today’s quality versus that of the cars in the 70s and 80s is so true. I had a 75 Mustang that nearly rusted away by 1981. There were even rust holes through the tops of the fenders. I totally understand why people turned away from American vehicles.
Dan – I get it. A product of your environment. I witnessed the corrosion and quality issues on my parents’ cars. I also experienced quality issues with a Dodge Caravan that I wrote about in my article last June.
Kevin – I like the thought process you followed. Congrats on the new Subie!
It has always been interesting to me that major repairs induce so many folks to purchase a new vehicle. When faced with this myself, I’ve always translated the repair cost into a representative number of car payments and have always found the repair the most cost effective route assuming the car was otherwise in good condition.
At age 70, I still drive a 1985 Mercedes 300D turbo diesel that I purchased in 1989 for $12k. Over the last 36-years I estimate I’ve spent about 3X that amount in maintenance. For me that’s a pretty low cost to drive a depreciating asset .
Terry – thanks for commenting. I mentioned, but probably should have emphasized, that I wanted the most up-to-date safety features. These features, combined with the economy of the hybrid powertrain, were the impetus for the change. My 2011 Forester continued to perform well mechanically, and whoever buys it will drive many more miles.
I fully understand. My car didn’t even have cup holders until I added them myself.
My wife drives a Subaru – she’s the car buyer in the family – and it’s a great car. Sometimes I find myself looking for the backup camera on the dash of the Benz. The only safety feature I have aside from seat belts is the car itself. It’s pretty much built like a tank. Even though I spent 30-years in Tier 1 automotive, cars were just never my thing. Luckily years ago I bought one built to last a long time. As for the environment, I think I’ve done my part by not buying cars.
Enjoy your new ride!
I’m extremely impressed you’ve kept that car for so long, wow!
Interestingly I was listening to a podcast yesterday that is vaguely about cars plus lots of esoteric man banter and they were contrasting how Subarus are massively popular in the US but very much post the WRX era a niche purchase in the UK (associated with rural communities more than anything with a corresponding sparse dealer network).
I’ve had a couple of Foresters as rental cars and very much enjoyed their sure footedness in winter conditions. I don’t know whether I’d go for AWD if I lived in a southern state because of the MPG penalty.
The other interesting thing is that the Outback continues to be a wagon just not named as such for all those lamenting the practicality of the wagon in a world of fashion over function SUVs.
No more wagon for Outback. Going to SUV style in 2026.
Still looks more like a wagon to me but marketing…..
https://www.subaru.com/2026-subaru-outback.html
Hmmm. Make it look like the Forester to me. I didn’t read your link closely, but the previous primary difference between the Outback and the Forester was that the Outback was considered a car and the Forester was “more-like” a truck. The distinction doesn’t mean a lot to me.
Hmmm. I don’t know about that. Much more uptight and boxy. I think they’re making a mistake. Had a niche w the wagon. Now they’re just one of a cast of thousands.
Upright (not uptight) 🙄
Just this past week, we ordered a new hybrid Subaru Forester. Our 2014 Subaru Forester started flashing a zillion lights (brake system, oil temp, something else) and needed a $1600 repair. We’ve been eyeing new hybrids for months, and with tariffs looming, decided it was time. The dealer offered us a less-than-satisfactory trade-in and wouldn’t budge, so we’re selling our old car to Carvana. It’s the second car we’ve sold to Carvana. Picking up the new one, then dropping the old one off on the same morning next week.
Tina – that’s interesting. I tried the Carvana website and the offer was substantially less than what the dealer offered as a trade-in. Good luck with the new car.
I still hadn’t learned all the features on my 09 Saturn when I got my 20 Equinox. Now comes a new Crosstrek for Chris; this one makes my Equinox look like Fred Flintstones’ ride.
But I love the features and the dealers concierge gave us a great in-service. You’ll love the Forester.
Hey Dan,
The Crosstrek hybrid comes in the plug in version. Did you consider a plug in? Any comments on your internal decision making process?
Like Jeff’s comment I wonder if I have already purchased my last car given the limited miles we drive.
Best, Bill
Bill, Chris had been driving a Prius since 2004; great gas mileage and very reliable, though not the most fun car to drive. We chose to go all gas this time for a several reasons.
I will say we liked the non-plugin Prius for its simplicity, but if I ever buy another hybrid I would consider a plug-in, as most of our driving is in town and we would rarely need any gas at all.
Dan – Thanks. Have you mastered the MySubaru app yet? I’ve only played with it. I want to experiment with the remote start.
I wouldn’t say that I’ve mastered it, Chris is better than I am. I can usually fumble around and do what I need to do.
I’m also wrestling with a new Chromebook; the OS is quite a bit different than my old computer. This old dog is struggling with all the new tricks.
Sounds like a good deal. Will be interested in what you find out about the new features.
Thanks, Kathy. One feature that I like is the ability to stop at a light – when the brakes engage I can take my foot off the pedal, the engine will turns off, and then everything resumes when I depress the gas pedal. This feature is never on by default, it must be driver-selected.
My 2007 Camry Hybrid turns the engine off when I stop, but I haven’t tried taking my foot off the brake at lights… I’m especially interested in whether it’s collecting and transmitting data, including voice.
Kathy – on my car, the “take the foot off the brake” feature must be manually turned on each time I drive.
I’m also interested in cached and transmitted driving info. I’m meeting with a Subaru tech next week and will ask about that.
Jeff, best of luck with the new car. I’d be interested to hear how you like the hybrid, and how it improves your gas mileage. I think my next car (or my wife’s more likely) will be a hybrid. Did you look at, or consider, any EVs?
Our new Toyota Crown Signia hybrid is a heavy car and still gets 40 mpg on the highway. For our driving, mostly rural to the grocery store and beach-ie short drives, a plug-in hybrid which uses up the battery first would have been the best, but not an option on this model. Have had the car six months and still haven’t figured out half the options. The owner’s manual is 200+ pages, and I got burned out reading it.
Rick – Thanks. I’m not ready to consider an EV. Regionally, around here at least, it’s feast or famine for charging stations. There are plenty in metro areas, like Raleigh-Durham-Chapel Hill. But once you travel far enough east or west, they are less prevalent. Last summer I was at the beach with my sister-in-law and her husband. They nearly drained their VW battery driving from Chapel Hill and then needed to find a charging station. I followed them there, then ferried them because it wasn’t a fast-charge station. That kind of availability bothers me for now.
I think it will take a couple of tanks of gas before I get a decent handle on gas mileage. The 2011 Forester did not live up to the EPA ratings for economy around town. For consistent highway driving it was close.
Thanks Jeff, I don’t think I’m ready for an EV yet either. I’m seeing more charging stations, but we are contemplating some road trips (possibly Newfoundland and Nova Scotia) and I would need to plan for it. We have discussed installing a few high speed chargers in a common area of our community. There are quite a few EVs.
Agree about pure EVs. Fine around town, not for trips. The gas mileage on my Camry Hybrid was noticeably worse after it needed new tires at 18,000 miles.
Kathy – was the mileage worse after you got new tires?
Definitely. I think the tires the manufacturer installed were unusually soft as they wore out so fast. I replaced them with Michelins. The mileage has gotten worse over the years as well.
Kathy – you likely know this, but lots of tire-related factors contribute to gains and losses in fuel economy. Temperature and tire pressure are two contributing factors, as well as the pavement material (and state of repair).
Also, a small but numerically provable factor is tire wear. As a tire wears, the diameter decreases, so as the tire approaches a tread-depth safety limit, the distance covered each rotation is less from when the tire was new.
I assume (but don’t know for sure) that car designers shoot for the mid-range of tire diameter, so fuel economy is a bit optimistic with new tires and pessimistic as tires approach end-of-life.
On that basis I should have gotten better mileage with the new tires. I no longer remember the numbers, but it was a noticeable decline.
Edited to add that a friend who bought a Camry Hybrid a couple of months before me had the same experience – new tires, worse gas mileage.