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College Conundrum

Edmund Marsh

MY DAUGHTER IS MORE than halfway through her junior year of high school. College and career choices are hot topics in our household. My wife and I have a dilemma: Should we encourage our daughter to pursue a college degree that matches her passions—or nudge her toward one that has a better chance of paying the bills?

My daughter is no slouch in math and science, but her true love turns in another direction. She devours good books, and writes fantasy and poetry as a hobby. She’s a Latin scholar and thinks linguistics textbooks are a fun read. Words are her element. A life immersed in literature and language calls out to her.

Even so, my daughter is no fool. She understands the value of money, and plans to exit college on a path to a decent paycheck. She’s prepared to relegate her ardor for literature to hobby status. We wonder if she could have both, a job that’s satisfying to the soul as well as the bank account. Our thoughts turn toward an academic career as a possible option for her, but what are the prospects?

Maybe not so bright. Every business needs customers, and for schools that means students. Enrollment at colleges and universities is down, according to the National Student Clearinghouse Research Center. After losing students in 2020 and 2021, during the COVID-19 pandemic, schools hoped for a return to pre-pandemic enrollment levels in 2022. Instead, combined undergraduate and graduate enrollment for fall 2022 continued to run 5.8% below 2019’s level. This loss of students is in step with a trend that started in 2012, when the number of college students began to diminish.

To my mind, a dwindling student population equals a decreasing need for new instructors. According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, the number of English language and literature teachers working at U.S. colleges and universities is projected to increase by 4,600 between 2021 and 2031. For a point of reference, I checked the BLS stats for my own profession of physical therapy. The forecasted number of new physical therapy jobs between 2021 and 2031 is 40,400, nearly nine times that of post-secondary English teacher positions.

What do those numbers mean when it comes to landing that first job after college? I know that a newly minted physical therapist has excellent prospects of finding a job that pays a decent wage. One of my roles at work is fostering relationships with students so we increase our chances of hiring them after graduation. A frequent conversation in hospitals and other businesses within the rehab industry concerns the abundance of available job openings and the dearth of therapists to fill them.

By contrast, talk inside the English department about the shape of the academic job market isn’t so rosy. According to an article in The Chronicle of Higher Education, the outlook for employment as an English professor is dim and growing dimmer. Authored by an English professor at Yale University, the article highlights information from the Modern Language Association (MLA) about the shrinking job market for English teachers at colleges and universities, including data tracking teaching jobs advertised through the MLA. The number of positions listed fell 55% during the decade ending 2017-18, and continued to drop through 2020, according to the MLA. The organization calls the state of affairs “a crisis.”

Where does that leave our daughter’s career choice? At the root of our concern is our hope for our daughter’s future happiness. Yes, she could have fun now pursuing an English degree, but the odds are low that it would lead to employment within the field itself. Instead, she could fall short of her goal and wind up with a job that feels like a consolation prize. “Search engine optimization specialist” may be a great occupation. But it isn’t as likely to stir her blood as introducing the next generation to the heroic deeds of Beowulf or the rousing words of Henry V.

On the other hand, pushing passions aside and setting sights on one of the hot jobs of the future may lead to a case of buyer’s remorse down the road. To find examples, my wife and I need look no farther than the mirror. After starting our adult lives in jobs we didn’t greatly enjoy, we both returned to college in our 30s to train for a career that both sparked our interest and provided a decent income.

I know ours is not the first family to consider similar choices and, let’s face it, we’re also concerned about our own happiness. As the financiers of our dear daughter’s education, we’d like to avoid the regret of buying a degree that sits idle on the shelf.

Ed Marsh is a physical therapist who lives and works in a small community near Atlanta. He likes to spend time with his church, with his family and in his garden thinking about retirement. His favorite question to ask a young person is, “Are you saving for retirement?” Check out Ed’s earlier articles.

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Anthony Williams
1 year ago

I was a Classics major, clear to all-but-dissertation PhD, so I understand the love of words and critical thinking. In 1978 I came to the conclusion that academic life was unlikely to be happy for me, so I changed radically. I have never had the slightest regret, but I have followed friends in the ed biz, and developments over the years.

Two things occur to me immediately. 1. the astounding implosion of most humanities departments in universities across the country, partly because of kids making cost/benefit calculations about humanities degrees vs STEM ones, and also partly because the quality of the programs in English, for example, has dropped. (They seem designed to destroy a love of reading and beauty.) You and your daughter should read and discuss this recent article in the New Yorker:
https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2023/03/06/the-end-of-the-english-major

2.nd the nature of the academic job market. Since I was in university, the use of adjuncts, associates, lecturers, and other non-tenure track contract workers has exploded, and their working conditions (single-year appointments, no security, often no benefits) are really appalling. I don’t have a handy article to point to, but do a little searching, and you will be sickened.

So, what to do?

Most people end up in occupations they never dreamed of at age 17, so expect to change your mind. Given the cost of higher ed in this country, don’t hesitate to change course sooner, than later. Avoid heavy debt at all costs. Paying twice or thrice at a ivy league school will not pay off.

Be lucky! (Always good advice.)

Edmund Marsh
1 year ago

Thanks. As I researched this topic for our family and the article, I turned up a number of articles that support your suggestions.
I will say that I realize there are individuals who will succeed in academia, as some of the comments have pointed out. Our goal has been to present the facts to our daughter so that she can make a decision with her eyes wide open.

MeBeeee
1 year ago

Does her linguistics interests include foreign languages? Alternatively, speech therapy? I chose the path of college education for earning good pay and pursued interests that I loved outside of work and never regretted it.

Edmund Marsh
1 year ago
Reply to  MeBeeee

Thanks for the suggestions. She knows she is definitely not interested in healthcare, which is helpful to shorten the list of possibilities.

SCao
1 year ago

For college, why not double majors? I know people who graduated with a college degree in engineering, with a double major in economics. Both majors offer very nice career paths.

Last edited 1 year ago by SCao
Marilyn Lavin
1 year ago

I have two PHDs — one in History from an Ivy League school; the other in Business with an emphasis in Marketing from a leading public university. I had a 30 year teaching career in Marketing, but was never able to get a decent history job in academia. Was my time in history a loss? NO! I met my husband (who did land an excellent tenure track post), met interesting people, some of whom became life-long friends, and learned important critical thinking, research and writing skills. I do think it was important, however, that I recognized that a teaching job in history was not going to happen and retrained. Today, for all the reasons, people in this discussion have cited, I would not encourage anyone to consider a career in academics — and even high school teaching has become extremely difficult.

A lot of the discussion here centers on an academic career in English and a vague STEM financially rewarding job. I think that’s like comparing apples and oranges. How many English majors go on to obtain PHDs? Even when academic jobs were more plentiful, only a small minority of BAs pursued the advanced degree. And equating a STEM major with almost guaranteed success is simplistic. My son was a physics major at an Ivy League school. He graduated summa cum laude, but then went to medical school. For those who obtain advanced STEM degrees, the academic path is rough. Universities do not fund research labs — faculty must constantly be competing for and winning research grants. That’s not easy. It is true that STEM majors are likely to have a more straightforward career path after graduation, but they may not find the jobs satisfying. Graduate business schools are filled with people who have engineering degrees. Accountants are abandoning the field in droves today. Starting salaries for people with biology degrees aren’t great. And the list goes on.

As a parent, I understand the desire to “ease the way” for a child, and I do realize college costs today raise the issue of “value.” But I have seen too many students whose parents wanted them to become accountants when the kids had neither the aptitude for nor the interest in the career. I think it’s important to realize that an 18 year old is a “work in progress.” Some will have clear career goals, but I doubt that’s true of most. (The reason that many students take more than 4 years to graduate is that there is a lot of major switching!) College students should have the opportunity to explore options. A lot of schools today allow customized majors that allow students to explore interests and aptitudes in several fields. That seems like a wise approach.

Finally, I suspect that education for today’s young people will be a lifelong pursuit. This does not mean an endless pursuit of master’s and doctorate degrees. But short certificate programs are likely to become increasingly important to help people re-tool or add skills in the rapidly changing work environment that seems to be emerging.

DrLefty
1 year ago

Well…I have a BA in English and a doctorate in Linguistics. I specialized in very practical topics (English language learning and writing) and have had a successful and financially rewarding academic career. I’m over 30 years into it, and I know things have changed. But even in the humanities, if you focus on topics of interest to many others and build a diverse teaching resume, there are opportunities out there to work. It’s the students who focus on the niche, esoteric topics that no one but them care about who may struggle to find a place. As with any other field, correctly assessing your market matters.

DrLefty
1 year ago
Reply to  DrLefty

…I have recent Ph.D advisees who got tenure-track jobs, even in today’s daunting market.

Debbie Williams
1 year ago

Whatever you do…make sure your kid works and pays their own money towards school, at least a portion. If they don’t have “skin in the game” it’s too easy to get distracted and end up with NO degree. Pot and partying can derail getting a degree when they have not had to sacrifice anything or invest their own money towards school. Ask me how I know….

Concerned
1 year ago

Our 30 year old son had the same passions in high school and college, Poetry and creative writing. He was valedictorian in high school and graduated Cum Laude from a (very) expensive Ivy League University. Almost all of his younger “professors” were Adjuncts with no job security and low salaries, and in some cases no benefits.

He sent out over 50 job applications to teach at private high schools ( he did not have credentials for public school), got three telephone interviews and two in person interviews. He was hired at the last minute at a “second chance school” ( one where the kids have almost all been asked to leave other schools for discipline or academic issues). Still he enjoyed teaching and was promoted and gave a national presentation over four years there.

He followed his fiancé to the midwest, tried a public charter school but hated the discipline issues and chaos. Now he is back teaching at a struggling private school but loves it. (Despite his experience and credentials he still only got one job offer in the large metropolis.)

The pay is abysmal however, and if we and his fiancé’s parents didnt help them, they would never afford a house even in the MidWest.

His friend in PhD program at Stanford have no job prospects and are probably going to teach high school too, after 6 to 8 years of additional education. This guy says because he is a white, cis, male, no one will even interview him. Other relatives with PhDs in the humanities have been dismissed from non tenure teaching positions because of budget cuts and declining enrollment. When they cut the Classics department budget, the first to go are adjuncts and instructors

My advice for most humanities majors is

1) There are no jobs in teaching, except in the most difficult urban environments with high turnover and low morale. The only possibly viable candidates for good jobs have experience, great references and come from the Top ten Universities nationwide ( Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Stanford etc) and most of those end up teaching high school. An English major from State U or State College doesn’t stand a chance.

2) Good English literature programs do teach you how to think and write and there is probably a job market in business for the better students with some experience. But get that experience in the summer at a business ; dont expect companies to take a flyer on you out of college without some practical skills like coding, math or economics, when you spent every summer vacation “finding yourself” in Bali.

3) Even PT is a long expensive haul, as it now requires a PhD! For good paying jobs without a lot of schooling look at Computer Coding or medical services positions requiring heavy duty technical skills which can be picked up in a year or two, after you follow your passions with Beowulf. This will pay the bills and allow you some energy at night to write.

Steve Spinella
1 year ago

Telling our stories to our families is often more powerful than trying to help them make their own decisions!
Oh, and I was an English major, who followed that up with too many years of further study in theology and family therapy, so I’m just lucky to still be alive at 66!

Last edited 1 year ago by Steve Spinella
Scott Pop
1 year ago

Great article Ed. At Lockheed Martin we all had one power point slide to “brief” to introduce us to our new boss – lots of humor and pictures. Wade gave his and ended it with I have two daughters both English majors … the engineering centric crowd laughed. Next up was Valerie who said “my name is Valerie and I am an English major.” They were friends so no offense was taken. I worked with Valerie a lot. She rose in her career in our proposal center; helping our team put together large government proposals. She was often asked to review engineer talk as well as briefs before they were given to the bosses. She cleaned up and clarified many technical major’s English disasters. She was focused and a hard worker. There is a path for English majors but it may be a harder path to make a living.

In my experience the harder the major, the easier it will be to get a job. It is tough to advise our kids. Knowing what I know now at age 62, if I was financing my kids education again, I would make sure they would begin college with an end job in mind or I’d encourage them to get some real world experience so they have some idea of what field they want to work in before they start college. It is not easy to know at that age. Or one could become a pilot like I did and never have to work. Being a planner, I majored in Civil Engineering just in case flight school didn’t work out. Good luck.

Last edited 1 year ago by Scott Pop
1PF
1 year ago

Colleges aim to enroll a well-rounded incoming class. Compared to more popular majors such as English, fewer applicants list Latin or classics as the intended major and thus are less likely to have much competition. A major in classical studies can include plenty of reading. Linguistics courses can often count toward Latin and classics majors. Adding a minor in a more technical field can improve the job outlook.

Jon Daley
1 year ago

My second son is a junior in high school and considering a degree and career in baking/pastry.

As far as I can tell, not getting a degree is economically equivalent to an associates degree if you can find good work experience which he does have available.

A bachelor’s degree (the only one he would consider is in business) is good for someone who wants to own his own bakery, but he’s pretty sure he doesn’t want to do that.

My wife and I loved college and the non-economic benefits, but it is hard to think about a $70k associates degree for no increase in hourly wages. Unfortunately for us. I just started a new job that disqualifies us for financial aid.

I’m not sure what to advise my son, but I’m leaning towards no degree. He has been leaning towards a bachelor’s as of late, though then the cost increases to over $120k. Seems like a lot to me.

daschles
1 year ago

As Yogi Berra said, “It’s tough to make predictions, especially about the future.” I graduated from college at the height of “Japan is #1”, “Japan is the future” etc. But I majored in Chinese—along with a bunch of other literature lovers, tofu eaters, and tai chi practisers! Those in the Japanese program, including close friends, went off to high-paying jobs in finance and law and business – their future seemed set and ours as Chinese majors seemed fragile. But then Japan went into decline, China began its ascendancy and the tables turned! Partly because of supply and demand, my cohort of Chinese majors really, really prospered. Then, of course, “smart” parents started sending their kindergarteners to Chinese lessons. By the time I was a senior manager hiring, I was spoiled for choice from the graduating cohort, and didn’t have to pay a lot! The future belongs to those who love to learn, who are serial specialists, who are flexible, and who have a bit of luck! College major has very, very little to do with it. And trying to game the future never works.

Paula Karabelias
1 year ago

My daughter works in biotech and with such a labor shortage she said they are hiring people with non STEM degrees and training them. Also , I worked for part of my career as an actuary and in my opinion the best actuaries were those who had degrees in the humanities (not math majors) but had either minored in Math or were simply good at math and disciplined enough at self study to get through the rigorous exams. I saw several math majors bail out after not getting beyond the first few exams, but the English and History majors got all the way through and had successful executive careers.

Ben Rodriguez
1 year ago

Excellent analysis of an important issue. I wish I had advice, but this only made me glad my oldest daughter is only 8 years old!

Edmund Marsh
1 year ago
Reply to  Ben Rodriguez

Be glad while you can, Ben. Your time is coming!

David Johnson
1 year ago

A good article on an important topic.

I was an English major. My parents were generally supportive of that choice, though it’s likely that as they considered career prospects for English majors, they probably would have counseled me to choose a different path.

I ended up with one of the “consolation” careers you linked. It never paid me more than about $5,000 more than the median household income during my career, and at some points less than the median income.

With respect to quality of life outside purely financial aspects of being an English major, I was never bored and never had a problem being engaged with my work, even though it was not Chaucer, to say the least. Even irritating problems were interesting to solve. That made my life better.

Also, the field gives you tools and practice useful in reading. If you can understand King Lear, likely you can understand Aristotle and if you can understand Nichomachean Ethics then an article on the benefits and limitations of Monte Carlo analysis in the construction of a retirement portfolio is not intimidating.

Most academic fields provide tools and practice useful in learning how to think; I’m not arguing that an English major is best. If in the course of whatever you study you can learn to think, then you can think about a variety of things, which not only makes your life more enjoyable in general, but is a very useful skill to have in a rapidly changing economy. Good jobs today may not exist, or be shrinking in number, in 25 years when today’s high school students should be entering their peak earning years, whereas jobs that do not exist today may be the “good” jobs then. I think back to early high school when the audio-visual guys were spending their lunch hours snorting soddering iron fumes while putting together metal boxes they called “computers” which they could program after a couple of weeks of work to play a tinny version of “Mary Had a Little Lamb.” What losers those computer guys turned out to be, huh?

On the financial side of things, earnings are not the sole determinant of success. Despite my less than uber salary, over the course of my working life, the money I saved and invested in really standard investment vehicles like mutual funds made far more money than I earned in wages. No matter what your profession, a modest interest in and understanding of personal finance is likely to make at least as much difference as what you earn.

Edmund Marsh
1 year ago
Reply to  David Johnson

David, in our family discussions, we are exploring degrees and careers and helping our daughter imagine her life 5-10 years from now. That’s not easy for a 17 year old. And it’s hard for her parents to think about those changes over the next 25 that you reference. Our goal is to have her think about the life she thinks she wants, and then find the path toward that life. For my wife and me, it’s easier to recommend the well-trodden way. But she’s not likely to be pushed where she doesn’t want to go.

Last edited 1 year ago by Edmund Marsh
Ronald Wayne
1 year ago

I can relate to your post as a high school student in 1971-1972 who was inspired by an English teacher to join a newspaper journalism elective in my junior year. I had found my passion and was one of only three juniors chosen for the class, which included the production of the student newspaper for my high school. This was before Watergate sparked a huge rush toward the field. My parents worked hard to dissuade me from this choice because of the low pay and competition for jobs. I stood firm and despite their resistance they paid for me to attend a university that had higher than average tuition for a state school. As I wrote in this blog post, I don’t regret the choice because my career gave me great satisfaction even though I didn’t end up working for a prestigious metro paper. As for my two kids, I never pushed them in any direction, and they’re doing very well. My son has a degree in American studies from Emory but works as a consultant for an international company and is making twice as much as I ever did, and he is in his late 20s. Children will find their path, and make it work for them.

Edmund Marsh
1 year ago
Reply to  Ronald Wayne

Thanks for the comment, Ron. We are trying to help her discover that path. I have a soft spot for Emory. Without it, I’m not sure my wife would have found her way from California to Georgia to meet me. I’ll think of you the next time I read the Daily News.

Jerry Pinkard
1 year ago

Our oldest granddaughter had this problem. She had a passion and talent for fashion design. Despite her parents’ pushing her to another major, she wound up with a 4 year degree in fashion design. It has been a struggle since. She worked in retail for 2 years but now has landed a job as designing and making wedding dresses. She manages a small team doing that. She says it is her dream job but even that does not have great pay.

William Perry
1 year ago

Congratulations on helping your daughter to where she is today and being willing and able to help finance her future college choices. My wife and I were at a similar beginning point 20 years ago with our daughter who graduated this past December with her fourth and terminal college degree, a DNP. Her masters and doctorate degrees in nursing were not her initial career choice but her life events caused her to choose to make a change in direction.

I believe and have told my daughter that no education that she committed to was wasted. Her first two first two degrees and five years of work in a different field have helped form the person she is today and make her better at her current career choice. That being said those who make a major career change that involve having to return to college commit a lot of additional money and time to make such a change. You apparently successfully did so. I tried to make such a change when I was 40 and found I was unwilling to commit to the time and money cost to do so. I recommend a frank parent – daughter discussion sooner rather than later of the extent you and your wife are willing and able to be the financiers of your daughter’s future education costs.

I wish your daughter happiness and purpose in her choice on starting college. Knowing that she option to later change her life direction should be tempered with the knowledge of the time and money that making such a change entails and who will bear those costs.

Edmund Marsh
1 year ago
Reply to  William Perry

I appreciate your thoughtful comments, William. It’s interesting to see how much of my frugality has been passed on and even multiplied in my daughter. She is definitely counting the cost of college and trying to forecast the future benefits.

Catherine
1 year ago

I was a Latin major and got my masters in Linguistics so I understand this passion.

I also spent nearly two decades in academia and was on many hiring committees.

There’s an intense push in teaching k-12 and college to create a faculty that is more representative of what our country looks like now, not a half century ago. Add that to the efforts to make college more cost effective and more career oriented. Few opportunities for Classics majors in that, though I know of one on my street who has a solid e academic careee going.

You and your daughter should look at all the jobs listed for your local universities and see if she feels comfortable with a non-faculty role, as a secondary path.

Also, I encourage both of you to spend some time with the Occupational Outlook Handbook, to see the whole employment landscape,

Edmund Marsh
1 year ago
Reply to  Catherine

Thanks for the good advice, Catherine.

D.J.
1 year ago

“A life immersed in literature and language calls out to her.
Even so, my daughter is no fool.” Wow. Stereotypes about the humanities have apparently hit a new low. If a life immersed in literature and language is somehow linked to foolishness, why do so many others connect it so readily with teaching? In this STEM-obsessed world, an English major could very well be a wise contrarian path. Step aside and trust her to try that path.

parkslope
1 year ago

A tenure-track job in English is a long shot and would require your daughter to demonstrate that she has the ability to write research-based books of impressive quality. Unfortunately, teaching ability is often not the most important factor for landing a tenure-track job.

It would seem that teaching high school English might be a good option for your daughter.

One of my nephews majored in English and is now making six figures writing internet content about fast-paced news developments. While the pay is good, the job is quite demanding and he is looking for other jobs that put a premium on excellent writing.

dl777
1 year ago

It seems the best path forward is to get a government job (federal or state) where you can get a defined benefit pension and pay equal to industry. A friend of mine just retired from a supreme court technology position in his late fifties and is receiving a pension equal to his pay (around $100K per year.) The government will never be able to reduce jobs as they will just print more money and/or raise taxes.

Kathleen Martin
1 year ago

How about a math major and a creative writing minor?

Juan Fourneau
1 year ago

A tough decision for sure. Both my kids are strong in math and science. Having worked with engineers at my job for decades it’s comforting to know they could pursue a field with a good chance to make a strong living. But if they chose to pursue something more artistic like writing I would struggle to deny them that. Sounds like your daughter is content to start her dreams as as hobby, or side pursuit. The best option for those with youth and energy on their side. Good luck to her!

Edmund Marsh
1 year ago
Reply to  Juan Fourneau

Juan, it is a little bit of a struggle. But I think the question of money will be a deciding factor.

Marjorie Kondrack
1 year ago

Ed..you said something that struck a chord with me…that your daughter was a Latin scholar because I was too. English is the most expressive language in the world and more than half of the English lexicon comes from Latin. It can help to make sense of unfamiliar English words and to understand why certain English words mean what they mean.

your daughter sounds like she has a wonderful, imaginative mind. I’m not sure of all the opportunities that may be out there for her but some research should turn up several.
she will find her way to a purposeful life that brings both prosperity and satisfaction. And with you to guide her she can’t fail.

Edmund Marsh
1 year ago

Marjorie, my daughter will give your comment two thumbs up!

John Yeigh
1 year ago

We nudged, both kids selected tough engineering programs, and as adults, both are happy with their finances and most particularly their expanded flexibility of future career options. That is not to say that they didn’t comment then and today about other youths’ easier paths through the college years or through well-paying trade apprenticeships.
Good luck to your daughter and her plans.

Edmund Marsh
1 year ago
Reply to  John Yeigh

Thanks for the well wishes, John. It’s definitely a family effort, and we hope all are happy with the results.

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