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When I’m turning a tricky problem over in my mind, my normal port of call is my wife Suzie…she’s much more sensible than me. But I have an issue I can’t ask her thoughts on. The reason is simple — it’s a secret that she knows nothing about. So I thought I’d canvass opinions from the Humble Dollar community.
Right now I’m thinking of offering four separate loans to extended family members, and the backstory is straightforward. My wife Suzie turns 60 in late November. A WhatsApp group was set up to coordinate a secret overseas trip to celebrate together — flights, fancy accommodation, the works. Then, just before Christmas, our daughter announced her wedding. Suddenly the same group of people had two major overseas expenses landing within months of each other. For some of them, that’s one trip too many.
The majority of our secret WhatsApp group have suggested a solution is to push the birthday trip back six months. But here’s my thoughts — once the day passes, it’s a memory. You can’t go back and celebrate a 60th that came and went six months ago. So rather than reschedule it into irrelevance, I’m thinking of suggesting I cover everyone’s costs upfront and let them settle up when they can. They’ve all indicated that they would be in a better position for the trip in six months, so I feel repayment would be within that timeframe…give or take.
I’m not even going to call it a loan. The way I’m pitching it is simple — I’ll float the trip until everyone is in a better position. No pressure, no timeline. It sounds like a small distinction but I think it matters. A loan has weight to it. This is just family looking after family.
I trust them completely. That probably sounds like the thing every cautious friend warns you never to say. Maybe they’re right. But keeping everyone at the table and facilitating a family event feels worth more to me than protecting my wallet.
To me, I’d be ensuring a memorable 60th birthday for my wife Suzie with people we care about. What do you think? Am I making the cardinal sin by lending to family? Have you had bad or good experiences leading to loved ones to push a special event over the line?
There is no price tag(s) when it comes to family experiences and enjoyment with each other. I have also floated the idea with our family of 9 for an overseas trip maybe during Christmas. The memories you will have and shared are simply priceless. GO FOR IT as a gift of love and not a loan. If they want to repay that will be fine.
Mark – I’d say go ahead and do it. Call it a loan, call it an offer, call it a gift, whatever. Walk away from the celebration with the joy and happiness of having all of these important people in one place at the critical time. Then, be mentally prepared to never see some of that money ever again, because someone likely won’t pay you back. Keep a stiff upper lip whenever you see those folks again and remember what a great celebration you planned and executed.
Jeff. I took the bull by the horns and reached out to all four people yesterday evening. The comments from the post pretty much predicted the outcome — two said they didn’t actually have enough vacation time to commit, and two accepted. I’m glad it’s resolved and I can get on with organising the trip. From a mildly amusing, clinical perspective, I’ve cut my potential default exposure by 50% without even trying 😂
Okay, yes, I think covering the cost for your daughters, their partners, and the grands is plenty generous.
I am in agreement with most of the comments below. Here is my 2 cents.
My father (a proud Irishman) had a falling out with his siblings (also proud Irishmen and Irishwomen) over their parents’ estate. It wasn’t a large estate by any stretch of the imagination, but because their pride this disagreement kept them apart until they day they died. I am certain my late father shoulders more than his fair share of the blame for this. I have not seen my cousins in 40 years, which I hope to change this coming summer. The reason I mention this, money can cause rifts, even ones we don’t see coming. What if one child repays and another doesn’t, does this become a rift?
Assuming everyone has available vacation time, and you have the means, I suggest covering the cost of the trip equally for everyone, or as equitably as you can. Make it clear what you are and are not covering with your generosity and most importantly have a wonderful time creating memories with your family.
That’s a sad tale of Irish pride — money has a way of complicating everything. I’ve already told my daughters that I’ll cover the cost for them, their partners, and the grandkids. Beyond that, the wider group is 12 strong, but only four of them are struggling with the expenses. The trouble is, it feels like a big leap going from covering those four to footing the bill for the entire group — 21 people in total. That just feels excessive!
I see the dilemma, 21 people really adds up!
I think you understate that Mark. Cut the group size. 60 isn’t that big a deal anyway. 😎Tell them all to save up for 65.
Looking at the other comments I would be concerned that you are scheduling 2 big trips too close together. Especially for anyone attending that is still working. It’s not just about $$. It’s also about time off. If it were me and my husband had planned a special trip, 6 months before or after would not be a concern. I would just be super happy!
You’re probably right. For my 50th birthday Suzie surprised me with a trip to Barbados but it wasn’t until a few months after the actual date…it was still a nice gesture.
My advice would be NOT to ever LOAN money to friends or family members because it is very likely that it will end up ruining your relationship with them. Since YOU want your friends and family to all celebrate your wife’s 60th birthday together, and apparently you can afford it, then I think it would be very magnanimous of you to offer to cover all of the trip costs.
21 people is a lot of money to be spending without my wife’s knowledge. I wouldn’t feel right making a decision that size without us talking it through as a couple. To be honest, even potentially covering the four is making me feel slightly guilty.
If you’re SURE your wife would want the birthday celebration, then I’d say you should just cover the costs. No loans, just pay for it. But I’m wondering whether you may be shoehorning a lot of celebration in a very short time frame. Not to mention the Christmas and New Year’s holidays that fall between the birthday and wedding,
Having a birthday, Christmas, and a wedding all within three months of each other is something I’ve given plenty of thought to. My compromise is to keep flights to no more than four or five hours and the trip itself to a week at most. And on a purely selfish note — a bit of sunshine just before Christmas sounds very appealing!
Spoken like a true retiree!! A week is a lot of time for a working adult. I suggest that you skip the surprise and ask your wife what she thinks. The money seems like a minor issue.
In my defence, the destination was chosen partly because it lends itself to shorter three or four day trips for those with time constraints. Suzie and I will probably stay on for a few weeks while everyone else picks whatever timeframe suits them. And if you think I’m bad as a retiree, my still-working sister-in-law has already informed her husband — who’s the principal of a private school and can only holiday when the school gates close — that she’s going regardless, and he’s more than welcome to stay behind and mind the school! 😄
If your wife’s birthday is at the end of November, be careful about the expectation that she’ll want to stay on a few extra weeks. The months before a wedding tend to be filled with surprise “emergencies.” Also— the wedding should be the big deal; birthdays happen every year.
Do you know, that’s a very good point. Thanks for flagging it up, it would never have crossed my mind.
When my wife loaned her cousin a lot of money so he could replace his home’s septic system, she drew up a note and also a letter with her expectations for repayment terms. He fulfilled the terms and they still have a relationship. If you do not formalize the loan with all the necessary paperwork, it is not really a loan, just an intension written on ice.
Mark, it’s not possible for me to know about your family member’s financial situations. Thinking back to my younger self, I’m certain I would have signed on for the event, and I’m certain I would have had to borrow money to make such a trip necessary.
Putting myself in your shoes, if possible, I would gift the whole kit and caboodle.
Dan, I hear you on the idea of covering the whole vacation. I’ll be honest, the thought did cross my mind — very, very briefly. But beyond the four who have genuine cashflow pressures in that tight window between late November and early February, the rest of the buggers are more than capable of covering it several times over. They’re hardly counting coppers! 😄
Forget the word and concept of lending. Suzie is your love, just pay for the trip. Let them push their funding back six months.
Postpone the whole trip and there will be other excuses later. Sounds like some folks had grand ideas but not the funds to back them up.
I genuinely think it’s the combination of two trips with Christmas sandwiched between them, rather than any lack of resources, that’s the real issue. Not everyone has the financial resilience to absorb that much discretionary spending in such a short space of time. The fly in the ointment is that my daughter’s wedding date was booked sooner than any of us anticipated.
I trusted my wife’s sister when we gave her a loan for 5K USD…until I didn’t. That money would have doubled twice since then. I am bitter. I could use the 20K today. My wife lost a sister because the sister can no longer face us after stealing the money. If you are going into this not ever expecting the money back thats fine. Also, have you considered some of these family members may be using the money factor as an excuse not to go? I admittedly do not know your family dynamics….good luck!
Beyond the expenses of the trip, could there be a limited-time-away-from-their-jobs factor leading them to suggest postponing the birthday event for 6 months?
Or is the birthday just a weekend away? I ask because our younger family members do have time constraints and can’t schedule week-long, fun events the same way retirees can.
Most likely a full week. I think there’s a more relaxed attitude to vacation and work in the UK — the minimum paid holiday entitlement, regardless of your age or role, is five weeks. It’s genuinely rare for anyone not to use their full allowance, and in fact most employers will actively push you to take it.
Agree w/Greg …”always consider a loan to a family member as a gift”
I think your plan is great. I would absolutely do it. Never mind any advice about lending to family. I agree with Greg below, and you’re already not calling it a loan. Sounds to me like you’ve accepted that if it takes forever (or longer) to get it back, it’s all good. Also, it’s not for them, it’s for Suzie and you. Make it happen and enjoy.
Mark, I commend your plan – go for it! But I also remember the advice I was given once – always consider a loan to a family member as a gift. If it does get repaid, that’s a bonus.
I agree with this. You have a generous heart, Mark. Chris