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Henry James is one of my favorite authors. In the late 1880s He wrote a novel, Washington Square, which was adapted into a play and an award winning movie, “The Heiress”. Olivia dehavilland starred as Catherine Sloper, a shy, ordinary looking, socially awkward young woman, who stands to inherit a large fortune.
Montgomery Clift, was Morris Townsend, her handsome, charming but ne’er do well suitor—and a wonderful English actor, Ralph Richardson, as Dr. Austin Sloper, Catherine’s father. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Heiress
In a scene from the movie, Dr. Sloper informs Morris that he is not a suitable candidate as a husband to his daughter, because he is “simply not in the right category.” (to choose from) for someone in Catherine’s position, whereupon Morris launches into an impertinent rebuke in attempt to disprove Dr. Sloper’s opinion. When the argument continues and Dr. Sloper’s opinion of Morris as a fortune hunter is confirmed, he summarily dismisses Morris by showing him the door, simply telling him…”you push me to it…you argue too much.”
While face to face debate has always been a part of our culture, the internet has given some people permission to become insulting, rude and negative to those who don’t agree with them. It’s all too easy to minimize the impact of what we are saying when we are behind a computer screen. It can also be easy to do something we may regret. In a moment of anger, one little message and one little click, can cause damage we can never take back.
Usually, when people argue on the internet, it’s not to resolve an issue or to understand each other, it’s just about spouting an opinion and seeking attention, or just to get one up on you by flouting, what they consider, is their superior intellect. So what’s the point—you are rarely going to change someone’s opinion. All it does is create hostility. .
I’d like to believe I am naive, rather than stupid, but I’ve just begun to wake up to the notion that there are trolls out there in comment land—people who argue just to argue. They only want to mock others who don’t agree with their views, and rile others up.
Even when one person is faced with logical reasoning and solid evidence that proves them wrong; rather than relent they will resort to personal attacks, There is no payoff to winning an argument. So unless it involves your integrity or an obvious need to clarify your position, let it go. Some people bring out the best in us, and others—well, they bring out a less than ideal version of ourselves. .
It takes a lot for me to get my Irish up. I’m still learning to quell a slight pugilistic tendency to give these irksome people a Brooklyn beating. Just Joking. But as Jonathan Clements wrote in his summation of personality types, “Understanding who we are—and the mistakes we’re inclined to make won’t necessarily prevent us from messing up, but it’s clearly a step in the right direction.” And, by all means, look out for the trolls.
I shuttered all my social media accounts. There are less than 20 people (other than family) that I communicate with via text on a regular basis. I realized that I don’t care about half the opinions out there. And to quote the great singer songwriter Paul Thorn, “I don’t like half the folks I love” LOL. BUT, so far this forum has remained wonderfully civil. Salute to all of you.
Isaac Hayes said it well too..,”if you enjoy the fragrance of a rose, you must accept the thorns which it bears”
Thank you for reading and commenting, Scott
I’d forgot Thorn’s line. I shall borrow it for my own purpose.
Humbledollar is a rare corner of the internet that has not devolved into incivility. We need to protect this.
There is an additional problem with what people post on the internet. We now have a government which appears to be embarking on a program to silence dissent by financially punishing institutions and individuals. We could be targets for what we say. For example, today I saw that a very wealthy member of the government threatened to sue a former congressman because of his speech. This could be done against any of us who post religious or political views that gov’t, or anyone with significantly more wealth, does not like.
My grandfather, who was an attorney, represented many people in the 1950s who were impoverished by HUAC cases against them. As a matter of financial planning, we again need to recognize that what we post could have negative financial implications.
Well, there’s speech and then there’s ugly defamatory speech, which was the case in the suit you are referencing.
This reminds me of a great short article about road rage I used to read to my teen children. The advice boiled down to the idea that you can engage with or retaliate against aggressive drivers or simply pull over and “let them have their accident somewhere else/with someone else”
I thought it was great advice, applicable to so many other areas of human interaction.
Good observation. Similar to the computer screen, the relative security of being in our cars can produce abusive behavior in some people.
Thank you for reading and commenting.
Nice reflection. I usually post to “further the action”. As for engaging in debate via the internet, that seems to be pointless and is something to be avoided.
Norman, your thoughts, ideas and experiences,as expressed in your comments, always portray you as an interesting person.
Marjorie, superb reflection on trolling that rings true to me, particularly given my experience on a soccer website I visit daily. My particular troll is, of all people, an elderly history teacher in Iowa. You just never know.
Mike, Thank you. Maybe your elderly troll is just plain lonely and seeking attention. They do come in all varieties, but “by their fruits you will know them. Thankfully you have the good sense not to engage with him/her. Like you said, you just never know.
Resident Car Guy here. I help organize the local “Cars and Coffee” and when behavior gets a little out of hand I have to address it via email and our Facebook page. I can always count on being lambasted on Facebook and my reply is always something like “I’d love to discuss it with you at my car at the next “Cars and Coffee”. NOT ONCE has anyone shown up in person. (Yes, they know which car is mine.) It’s very dissappointing how much folks have to say online, but not in person.
Agreed. If I wouldn’t say it to you when in line at the grocery store, I won’t say it to you online.
Bob, very interesting to read about “Cars and Coffee”. My father was a car enthusiast and I worked for GM so my interest and knowledge of older cars goes a little further than most women’s. The photos in the article you referenced are beautiful. Your get togethers with other enthusiasts sound like fun.
Marjorie, many good things to be reminded about and perhaps read daily. Often I’ve deleted a response before posting, here and on other forums, just to avoid a misunderstanding. We all make mistakes and don’t realize it until it’s too late.
Olin, we are all only human. It’s a good thing when our kinder, gentler nature prevails.
Thanks for your comments.
Good thoughts, Marjorie. I think I have learned to never offer intentional criticism in an email. I’m trying to lean to resist the urge to send a quick email that doesn’t fully explain my thoughts, unless it’s clearly positive. And I try to remember Jonathan’s advice that emails I receive may not fully represent the sender’s thoughts or they may not be talented in expressing them.
Regarding trolls, I tend not to engage with them, whether in person or in print. If they are talented, I may end up angry and looking foolish. But if I best them, I’ve probably gained an enemy, and who needs more of them?
Ed, I really admire the way you seem to hit the perfect note and expression every time you comment. You have a style that’s unique to you.
i am several years your senior but I’m influenced by your personal beliefs and values.
Stay authentic.
The movie I referenced “The Heiress” was drama at its best. It won 4 Academy Awards
and was chosen by The Library of Congress for preservation for its historical and cultural significance. Available free on YouTube and shown on TCM occasionally. Netflix is a choice as well.
Good post, Marjorie. Another thought, especially with social media, is to just scroll on by. Chris
Thanks Chris. Have always found your comments appropriate and informative.
Thanks Marjorie, good post. Way back in the nineteen hundert and nineties, ‘fore we had all this social media and bloggin’ stuff, there waz this thing they called….. Email.
Email was all the rage, and I soon learned the hard way that the words we used didn’t always convey the tone we wanted people to hear. I also came to realize that some people tended to be confrontational when emailing.
I came to call this behavior “email rage”, and vowed to never say anything in an email that I would not say to a persons face.
It’s very easy to be a butthole behind the safety of a computer monitor.
For the most part, I agree with this. However, people may also be too sensitive.
I’ve been in the position where I’ve sent an email and later been told that my tone was to harsh and I certainly never would have said that face to face. Sometimes they were correct, but many times I said precisely what I would say face to face.
I’ve learned to be more gentle, but people often can’t take criticism or suggestions no matter how it’s packaged.
“vowed to never say anything in an email that I would not say to a persons face”
I would add “or heard in a court of law“.
Good comment Dan
Dan, there is a term for that: cyber bully. We had a few of those in our organization. They could be highly aggressive online but were often pleasant and congenial face to face.
Dan, Good thinking. facial expressions, tone of voice and body language speak volumes when we are addressing people face to face. It takes extra care when we are writing as words alone can be easily misunderstood
Good point. I remember a leadership class back in the 1970’s in the USMC (hardly an organization renowned for its sensitivity training at that time). There was a short training film of a young officer discussing something with a junior enlisted marine. In one version the officer came off extremely negative and in the other there was much more empathy and reasonableness. But the text of the interchange was identical in both versions. It impressed me greatly at the time that the delivery can be as important as the message itself.
Thank you for a significant example of how tone and voice affected your perceptions. And thank you for your service to our country.