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Seems like a simple question until you think about it. “Means” as living within ones “means” may mean something different to different people😳.
To me, “means” means no debt other than a mortgage and maybe an auto loan (maybe). Certainly no credit card balance at the end if the month
What makes up the “means?” I say it’s all earnings that are or could be subject to FICA taxes if there were no limit. That means, “means” does not include say, interest and dividends, but if retired it has to include a pension, social security or other regular income stream.
I also think “means” only begins after saving, except once a person is retired.
Would you include taking a lump sum from investments to buy a car within ones “means?” Maybe, is the way I see it. Why maybe? If that withdrawal has zero impact on long term financial needs, yes. If it has a chance of messing up future income needs, no.
Funny how “means” is unrelated to income. Everyone has a “means.” Although at the stratosphere income level, “means” is quite meaningless.
Since we have money left each month from our pension and social security – sometimes more or less than others – I believe we are living below our means. I would be stressed living any other way.
HD used to consist primarily of useful financial information. Unfortunately, that is becoming more and more difficult to find.
HD was always a mix of technical financial/investing info and the practical human side of money and its impact on behavior and dealing with life. I have been writing that way nearly eight years.
I fail to see anything of practical value to be gained from discussing this topic, unlike numerous other non-technical articles and forum threads about the human side of money.
I think there is an important message here for worker bees. Dick contends that ‘means’ should be defined as one’s available earnings after adequate contributions to retirement savings. A person could be totally debt free with a few bucks left over at the end of the month, but can she/he/they claim to be within their ‘means’ if not preparing for retirement?
Do you honestly think his proposed definition will change anyone’s contributions to their retirement svgs, especially given that “means” is such a subjective word that is used in many different ways?
Honestly, Parkslope, I think most everything offered as advice goes in one ear and out the other. And I know Quinn offends at times. I also know that he’s one of a handful of writers that puts himself out there for both praise and scorn by contributing what he believes may be helpful to some. And yep, that dude is opinionated; you ought to read his Facebook posts, LOL.
You should read my blog if you want to see opinions. 😱
Not going along with the crowd, questioning the generally accepted, pushing back on convention is how we move forward in thinking. IMO
Everyone is free to accept or reject, but at least think about the alternatives and possible consequences of the for or against positions.
I have no problem with anyone challenging anything I write, but don’t criticize me if I come back with my opinion on it.
It would be nice if some of the critics would take a position and generate an original post. A number of former HD writers have disappeared. I think that’s a shame.
I’ve also lamented the disappearance of some really good writers on the site.
And regarding ‘mission creep’ and inappropriate posts. I do not discard some peoples opinion on the subject, however, on a recent trip to Bogleheads, I noticed questions about Korean fried chicken and electric teapots. I had no interest in either, so I didn’t bother to read them.
I don’t see how complicated it is. A person has an income, they also have a net income and from that they save first and then they have a real net income and from that they spend and if they avoid consumer debt beyond the current month and pay their ongoing bills, aren’t they living within their means under any definition?
I suppose someone could argue that if they easily paid monthly credit card debt, they were also living their means, but I think that is a stretch.
Of course, there may be some people who don’t have any need to save.
At least we can agree that your notion of “mean”is simplistic, although I could be wrong given your penchant for argument. My original point was that your concept of “means” was too obvious and simplistic to be of any practical value.