Another consideration when deciding to rollover or not rollover is ERISA protection.
Employer sponsored plans are typically protected from creditors, bankruptcy and other legal actions. In many states IRAs do not enjoy these same safeguards.
I find it challenging to know what to do with the results from qualitative studies such as the ones David cited above and the General Social Survey Jonathon referenced in his post. First of all who is responding to these surveys? I can’t remember the last time I (or someone I know) was involved in a survey, can you? Is there a demographic skew based on those available and willing to respond to a survey? For those who do respond to surveys, I suspect they are biased by the peer group the respondents identify with. This is similar to the “Are you rich?” Or “ Are you middle-class?” surveys. IMO, the answer is “It depends on who I am comparing myself to”. Are you the average of your 5 closest acquaintances? Or do you aspire to be the lottery winner next door? Are enough people surveyed to overcome the biases & represent us as a nation? Probably so, but it lingers as a curiosity in my mind. Quantitatively speaking, (I’m making a jump here to use suicide rates as a measurement for unhappiness and I don’t mean to marginalize those suffering from mental illness or suicidal experiences in doing so) Nordic countries were near the top of the list of countries in suicide rates through 2019 then their governments dedicated resources to national mental health improvement. Did they improve mental health by addressing real
problems? Did they affect change by adjusting the attitude of their citizens? Did they change the adopted identity of peer groups? i.e. I’m a sad person to I’m a happy person? Then there’s the question…”Should we be happy?” I think we all want to be happy, but is it best to achieve it? Does happiness lead to complacency? Does a bit of unhappiness lead to innovation and improvement in the pursuit? I think on an individual level unhappiness is not good, potentially even deadly, but on a national level it contributes an overall strive for constant improvement.
I apologize for the rambling stream of consciousness!
You’re welcome. Here is a link to a plain language Ed Slott article on Roth Distribution Ordering Rules.
https://irahelp.com/slottreport/roth-ira-distribution-ordering-rules/
C Z, With Roth’s being such a big topic for discussion, I’m surprised no one has responded to this. The 5-year waiting period for conversions only applies to earnings, not the amount originally converted, and the 10% penalty is waived if you are over 59.5.
I find it amazing how triggered we are (myself included) by the cost of gasoline. We will drive miles out of our way to go to a a fuel station that is $0.10 cheaper. A grand savings of $2.00, assuming a 20 gallon tank. IMO it’s because of the public nature of the pricing.
It seems every intersection has four large signs trying to entice us to stop in and top off. The price of gasoline is even posted to the thousandths place, always a 9, because of our sensitivity ( $.18 more than we believe to fill that 20 gallon tank). If one of those signs is a penny cheaper ($0.20 savings on a tank). We will attempt crazy left turns, go around the block, or do a u-turn around the median into oncoming traffic to keep those two dimes in our pocket.
Gasoline retailers know this. They can see their competitors’ price in big red numbers on the opposite corner. When the wholesale price of gasoline drops a game of chicken starts. The retailers hold on to their profits until their volumes are impacted or their competitor blinks and is first to adjust their price. Then everyone follows suit. It’s rare to find a gasoline retailer that does not behave this way. It seems Costco is one of the few. They markup everything including fuel a standard percentage. As a result I tend to find fuel retailers in competition with Costco Fuel to not only be cheaper, but also more responsive to changes in the market.
I don’t think EV owners feel an additional registration fees to account for gas tax not paid at the pump is unfair. I do think that there is an unfairness with the amount EV owners are penalized for owning an EV.
The 2024 average miles driven by ICE automobiles was 14,200. The $250/year paid by EV owners in New Jersey (gas tax $0.449/gal) is equivalent to 556.7 gallons of gas. Or, based on the ICE average annual miles driven, a car that gets 25.5 MPG. But the average EV travels even fewer miles per year than its ICE counterpart at 12,400 which means average EV owners are paying a gas tax on par with a car that gets 22.25 MPG (for reference, no judgement, a Ford F150 is rated at 23 MPG combined).
A more fair system would be to pay tax on a cost/miles driven, then EV owners would have a say in the amount of tax they are required to pay just like ICE drivers have by purchasing a more efficient car or driving fewer miles. But I imagine if all drivers had an annual accounting of their gas tax, they would think it’s unfair.
Comments
Another consideration when deciding to rollover or not rollover is ERISA protection. Employer sponsored plans are typically protected from creditors, bankruptcy and other legal actions. In many states IRAs do not enjoy these same safeguards.
Post: Ninety Nine, I mean Eight Retirement Tips
Link to comment from June 28, 2025
I find it challenging to know what to do with the results from qualitative studies such as the ones David cited above and the General Social Survey Jonathon referenced in his post. First of all who is responding to these surveys? I can’t remember the last time I (or someone I know) was involved in a survey, can you? Is there a demographic skew based on those available and willing to respond to a survey? For those who do respond to surveys, I suspect they are biased by the peer group the respondents identify with. This is similar to the “Are you rich?” Or “ Are you middle-class?” surveys. IMO, the answer is “It depends on who I am comparing myself to”. Are you the average of your 5 closest acquaintances? Or do you aspire to be the lottery winner next door? Are enough people surveyed to overcome the biases & represent us as a nation? Probably so, but it lingers as a curiosity in my mind. Quantitatively speaking, (I’m making a jump here to use suicide rates as a measurement for unhappiness and I don’t mean to marginalize those suffering from mental illness or suicidal experiences in doing so) Nordic countries were near the top of the list of countries in suicide rates through 2019 then their governments dedicated resources to national mental health improvement. Did they improve mental health by addressing real problems? Did they affect change by adjusting the attitude of their citizens? Did they change the adopted identity of peer groups? i.e. I’m a sad person to I’m a happy person? Then there’s the question…”Should we be happy?” I think we all want to be happy, but is it best to achieve it? Does happiness lead to complacency? Does a bit of unhappiness lead to innovation and improvement in the pursuit? I think on an individual level unhappiness is not good, potentially even deadly, but on a national level it contributes an overall strive for constant improvement. I apologize for the rambling stream of consciousness!
Post: Does a Happy Country Lead to Happy Individuals?
Link to comment from June 21, 2025
You’re welcome. Here is a link to a plain language Ed Slott article on Roth Distribution Ordering Rules. https://irahelp.com/slottreport/roth-ira-distribution-ordering-rules/
Post: RDQ Sorry folks, I still see annuities, including deferred annuities, as a viable option for creating steady retirement income.
Link to comment from May 4, 2025
C Z, With Roth’s being such a big topic for discussion, I’m surprised no one has responded to this. The 5-year waiting period for conversions only applies to earnings, not the amount originally converted, and the 10% penalty is waived if you are over 59.5.
Post: RDQ Sorry folks, I still see annuities, including deferred annuities, as a viable option for creating steady retirement income.
Link to comment from May 4, 2025
I find it amazing how triggered we are (myself included) by the cost of gasoline. We will drive miles out of our way to go to a a fuel station that is $0.10 cheaper. A grand savings of $2.00, assuming a 20 gallon tank. IMO it’s because of the public nature of the pricing. It seems every intersection has four large signs trying to entice us to stop in and top off. The price of gasoline is even posted to the thousandths place, always a 9, because of our sensitivity ( $.18 more than we believe to fill that 20 gallon tank). If one of those signs is a penny cheaper ($0.20 savings on a tank). We will attempt crazy left turns, go around the block, or do a u-turn around the median into oncoming traffic to keep those two dimes in our pocket. Gasoline retailers know this. They can see their competitors’ price in big red numbers on the opposite corner. When the wholesale price of gasoline drops a game of chicken starts. The retailers hold on to their profits until their volumes are impacted or their competitor blinks and is first to adjust their price. Then everyone follows suit. It’s rare to find a gasoline retailer that does not behave this way. It seems Costco is one of the few. They markup everything including fuel a standard percentage. As a result I tend to find fuel retailers in competition with Costco Fuel to not only be cheaper, but also more responsive to changes in the market.
Post: A Rant about the Price of Gas
Link to comment from May 4, 2025
I don’t think EV owners feel an additional registration fees to account for gas tax not paid at the pump is unfair. I do think that there is an unfairness with the amount EV owners are penalized for owning an EV. The 2024 average miles driven by ICE automobiles was 14,200. The $250/year paid by EV owners in New Jersey (gas tax $0.449/gal) is equivalent to 556.7 gallons of gas. Or, based on the ICE average annual miles driven, a car that gets 25.5 MPG. But the average EV travels even fewer miles per year than its ICE counterpart at 12,400 which means average EV owners are paying a gas tax on par with a car that gets 22.25 MPG (for reference, no judgement, a Ford F150 is rated at 23 MPG combined). A more fair system would be to pay tax on a cost/miles driven, then EV owners would have a say in the amount of tax they are required to pay just like ICE drivers have by purchasing a more efficient car or driving fewer miles. But I imagine if all drivers had an annual accounting of their gas tax, they would think it’s unfair.
Post: Ida M Fuller, Social Security, EVs, taxes and a 340 million person society-Quinn rambles on, but with a purpose
Link to comment from April 14, 2025